Cocoon After Dark
There’s a certain kind of story we only tell in the dark.
The kind that lingers. The kind we’ve carried in silence. The kind that needs soft lighting, no interruptions, and someone who won’t flinch.
Welcome to Cocoon After Dark—I’mQuincy Tessaverne, and this is a space for truth-telling that’s tender, textured, and unapologetically queer.
Each week, we sit with voices—mostly Black, brown, LGBTQ+—who’ve lived through things that don’t always fit into polite conversation.
We talk identity, pleasure, boundaries, grief, reinvention, and the moments that changed everything.
This isn’t small talk. It’s soul talk.
So take what you need. Leave what you don’t. And listen with your whole body.
Cocoon After Dark
BONUS EPISODE: 3 Men, A lady and a little baby: Make-up artist's Caroline Ashton and Darais
We're Just Besties...Making a Baby (no Really)
What happens when your gay best friend is your soulmate, your straight best friend is your baby mama, and both of you have significant others? Apparently...you make a whole damn family.
In this episode, Caroline and Darais drop into the cocoon to talk about what it's like to build a modern family without the mess of sex but with all of the spreadsheets, love, and flying sperm across the country. We cover coparenting while partnered, redefining intimacy (without the awkward cuddle talk), and why this baby is basically the makeover we all want.
Come for the baby talk, stay for the group chat dynamics, and leave questioning why YOU didn't have a baby with your best friend, too.
https://linktr.ee/CocoonAfterDark
Hey, cocoons. Tonight on Cocoon After Dark, we're cracking open a story that refuses to fit into neat little boxes. He's gay, she's straight, they're best friends, and they're having a baby. She's married to a man. He's engaged to a man. This isn't a love triangle. It's a love constellation. We talk about the sacred messiness of chosen family, redefining partnerships, and the kind of friendship that births more than just memories. It births legacy. You'll laugh, you'll question what you thought you knew about love, and you might just feel a little braver in the ways you choose your people. What if friendship is the greatest love story? We never talk about. What if co-parenting isn't just for couples, but for soulmates who see each other wholly, wildly, and without condition? Thanks for staying up with us tonight. You're gonna really enjoy this. Until next time, let's keep whispering in the dark.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Welcome Caroline and Reyes to Cocoon After Dark. Thank you guys for agreeing to come on a Sunday in the middle afternoon. I know it was when all of us could get together, especially since everyone's traveling and working. But do you guys want to start us off with basically how we met
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:All right. How I met you, Quincy, or how I met Caroline
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Harry? We can talk about us later. Let's talk about you and Caroline right now.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:oh my goodness. I used to travel a lot for work, which I still do, and I was spent about one week a month up in Seattle, and Caroline was a resident up in Seattle. I believe You were a nanny at the time. Yep.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:That was a nanny. Lived with my sister and her family.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:And I was up there doing national events for Lancom'cause I was their national makeup artist, celebrity artist. So I'd go into Nordstrom's, Macy's, all the stores, and we have a mutual friend that I would always go and see when I would go up there and we'd go out on Capitol Hill, have a crazy time. I can't believe I had so much energy back then to go to Capitol Hill every single night that I was there. one time our friend Maddie, he brought Caroline along the rest was history. What would you say about that, Caroline?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah, I think Matt was really excited to introduce us'cause I was an artist that mostly just focused on creating art for photographers and runway and things like that up in Seattle. It's a small community, but there's a lot of good art inspo there. And when he told me about Dores, I almost didn't take it that seriously because I didn't really connect like the art world and makeup as something that I would be interested in. But obviously getting to know Reyes, like it's much more expansive with what he does.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:And
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:so I What's that?
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:2009. Just so like you get a little bit of a
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah,
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:past this before TikTok, before probably even Instagram at the time, I think Facebook was still like the number one thing that people did. So
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:yeah.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:was makeup artists out there. Yeah.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah. And my friend group was evolving as well. I was in like a pretty religious before, like expanding like gay friends I hung out with a little bit more often. And then. So I just felt like I fit more into that circle. And then I also had interest to move into to la so I really clung to Reyes. But he was there, once a week, like he said. So I got excited every time he'd come. He was fun to hang out with. Probably a little too much fun. I am definitely like, not his pace, like back then,
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:like, you would always go out at night and I'd bring sidewalk chalk and we would like laying on the sidewalk and we would trace our bodies
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:appropriate.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:And we would glue on the streets and watch people walk across the street trying to pick up dollar bills that have been super glued like we had every night. We had some fun adventure, right?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:We had a lot of fun, probably like too much fun with some alcohol at times. And but no I definitely credit our friend Matt for connecting us. He saw like my interests and also saw what maybe Reyes could introduce me to, especially with the makeup career and things like that. And so that's really how it started is I even would go and visit him at some of his nationals at the retailers and stop by and say hi.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:was the first person to ever do your makeup and you would never let anyone touch your face.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:It is true now it's a different story. It's fine if relaxed a little bit, but I, yeah, it was like I was really particular about, doing my makeup and things like that, just'cause I had a specific way I liked it, like a lot of people. And, I let him in.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:You let him in and especially because he is so easy on the eyes and he loves to make straight women think that, not that he's straight, but he loves them to think he's straight.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Don't let my sexuality define who I am, so I don't even bring it up,
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:exactly.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:wish I was straight more than I would ever like.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:it's weird to think back, but I definitely had a crush on him. Like every straight woman probably does when, when they meet him. But it's so much more even about his looks. He is just, he's such a beautiful person inside as well. It was, I really just clung to his, not even just charisma'cause a lot of like toxic people can have a lot of good charisma. It was really like a lot of his humility as well,
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh, totally. I completely agree. And it's so funny because when we met in a bar like, hello. Of course we met in a bar after being on the beach all day. So I probably didn't even smell very good, nor did I look at all presentable. But yeah, it's just a funny way that you come across people like this, that you. Always can have your guard down with Dres and there's no judgment ever, right? It's just such like a genuine friendship. And I love that about him. I love that, my daughter has him in her life and now that you will have your baby in his life and it's just so important. So let's get to the absolute question, the burning question. Made you guys decide to have a baby together after knowing each other for so long?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:We were trying to figure out, like when the conversation started, we couldn't even remember'cause it's always been like a running joke. But be careful what you joke about because things can definitely come true in the future.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:think we were, I think we were in like a national sales meeting for long, and we were probably somewhere either in Paris or New York or Florida, somewhere in. think we were just sitting in a room when they have those long work things and you're trying to listen and pay attention and stay awake, but and I think it was just something like, yeah, we're gonna have a kid together and,'cause it was, she was always Mrs. Long Call. I was always,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:We were so bored. We were like, let's have a,
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:make a baby long. Yes. But
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh my.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I,
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:saying this was it. I had never
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:yeah.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:that I would have kids this life'cause I never felt like that was something that I was destined to do or I needed to do. I feel like I've had kids in past lives just with all my nieces and nephews, I have lots of them. I just, I pick up a kid and it's natural to me. I feel like I've done this a thousand times before, even before I even did it. So I just didn't feel urge that a lot of people feel in this life to have a kid. I know that Caroline felt a little bit different about that, and she had a little bit of an urge, and so she
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah,
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:a boyfriend. How long ago was Brendan coming to your life?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:we started to date pro like in 2019, so around before the pandemic. And really that relationship put into action what I had already felt strongly in my soul about relationships. Then parenting. I never connect. I never felt like those two needed to be connected. I felt like it was important for me to find someone to love and to spend my life with and to respect and cherish that relationship. But I also didn't expect that person had to be the biological father of my children. And I did wanna be a biological mom. Drea said, I had more of that urge, but I didn't have the urge, like to start young. So to take my time and really make sure I could as much of, be responsible, as much as possible. And then. now husband, he he and I went back and forth with this idea of first you're not gonna like spill all like these ideologies that you have or like beliefs, you're not gonna be like, you don't necessarily have to be the biological father. I'm like, but I don't know that would go over well on a first date. But it got to the point where we wanted to see each other more. And I was also sensitive of to the fact that he had recently gotten out of a marriage and was going through a separation. He had two kids of his own. He definitely didn't see himself being a biological father to more children. And I also really respected that I was not that person that was ever to expect anything more from what a person wants.'cause I know they're not gonna be able to show up the way that they need to show up later in life. So it went back and forth a little bit and then there was a moment where we almost broke up and it was because of the kid thing.'cause I wanted to have kids. And I said I do have a friend. And that's when I told him about Dores and I was shocked that he was like open to that. And
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:How did the conversation come up? Were you guys like out to dinner at home?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:yeah, it, so one of the conversations was like, hopefully he doesn't get annoyed that I say this, but he was about to get a vasectomy and I was like, it was in the first few months of us dating. And I was like, why would you make this decision so quickly when we haven't even to know each other and whatnot. And followed through on it all went well. I still supported him because I'm I believe in male birth control as well. But
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:For sure.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:with with that, I knew that the chances were over because I'm like, I don't think that this guy would go for it. And so we were, I remember we were, we would always meet in San Clemente because that was like our halfway point. I lived in Long Beach at the time. He lived in San Diego they have so many beautiful restaurants there. And we were doing this like art walk that one night and ended up at a little wine bar. And we were about to call it a night and be like, okay, like this is, you're like, this is what it is. Like I don't think that this is gonna work. And then if it weren't for me to go out on a limb and say, what do you think about this? What would you do? And we were in my car at that point. It was the end of the night. then he was like, yeah, I'm open to that. And I think too, because he's of us were planning like years in advance at that point. Like he was in a different situation. And I was always the type of person that like one step at a time. I don't fantasize about this, like walking down a aisle. In fact, when we got married, did it on a beach, just the two of us. And it was zero planning. So it wasn't this thing where like I needed things to be a very specific way in my mind, but I also knew that I had these other needs of It was all about me being able to experience being a mom and also being able to live life with a person that I truly loved.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:That's awesome. So cool. So once you told him were you guys was. This still like prior to the pandemic or was this like during the pandemic?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah, so I it was prior to the pandemic and then the pandemic happened and we spent many times going back and forth through the last in the first few years of us together. remember we'd write down like just different timelines and we would write down like the number one option would be duras being the father. two option would be sperm donor. Number three would be embryo donation. Number four would be adoption. Number five would be like, and so we'd go through all the like realistic. Things that I could do to and what that would look like. And so that part was all during the pandemic.'cause at that point we were, when you're stuck with each other, you're stuck with each other at that point.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Totally.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:So we were starting to plan a little bit more to the future then.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:And then when did you tell Reyes that you guys said yes?
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:that phone call. I remember a phone call where I was like, Carolyn was like, Hey, oh, just so you know, we're gonna start trying to have a kid. And I was like, you and Brenda? No, me and you. I was like, I thought that was off the table. Like I thought that, and I know that they were going through this, and I'm just like, absolutely. Like I didn't hesitate. I think there were concerns in my head about of the logistics that come with having a kid or co-parenting, I've always had, like when I met Caroline, it was friends at first sight, like best friends as well. And I felt like we shared the same soul when it came to art and the way that we thought and. We, we went through it all, together where our insecurities, our loves, our relationships, our breakups, and I think everything that we did just brought us closer and closer together to where I wanted her to be a part of my life in la. So I helped her move to LA and got her a job, and I just always wanted to look after her, like a little sister. and it just happened naturally. So when she said that, I'm like, we'll figure this out. And one thing I've learned with all my nieces and nephews is parents have a plan of what they're gonna do when their kid is born. That's great to have a plan, but it's greater to know that plans are gonna change and they're gonna change a lot. And you have to be able to change with those plans. Yeah, I was excited when she said that I was a little bit shocked. And then I'm like, okay, I gotta figure out in my life if this is something that my partner now wants, is cash gonna be okay if I have a kid? And how is this gonna affect us and where am I gonna spend my time? And. All those questions are still out there in my mind, but when it's right and you just make it work.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Because when you guys first started having the conversation, both of you were completely single, and by the time the decision happened, you guys were both in very committed relationships. So it's four people having a baby, essentially. I know just being like a divorced mom and then you start dating new people, like your kids suddenly has all these other people in their lives. And how, like how do you navigate, all of those things. So how are you guys going to navigate those kinds of boundaries? Or is it gonna be more of an uncle type relationship or is it going to be definitely more like stepdad or other dad lives in another state?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Dore is Darius's daddy. The other dads will be some form of that. Obviously Brendan. My husband is going to play a big role since the kid will probably live here most of the time. I've seen co-parenting happen on a lot of different levels. It's really challenging too, especially when it's ends in divorce and whatnot. I just, the way that I think about it is like. I'm gonna have so much of the child in my life. Whatever time he wants to spend with Dores is I want that to happen. And then also, it's based on Dre's flexibility too. He's traveling quite a bit, and so it's not gonna be like, the cadence is not going to be like a other weekend type of scenario. But we're gonna be definitely like in communication and he's gonna be that father in the child's life. And then the other dads will be like the stepdad figure. But I think in terms of like boundaries and things like that, we align pretty well on what we. We've had a lot of time to align to, We've gotten a lot of exposure to each other in the last couple years, knowing like each other's boundaries with kids and whatnot. I've seen him be an uncle for so long. He's seen me be a stepmom and an aunt as well. So there's a lot that we've already been exposed to. told him I don't, I don't wanna know some of the things, like what, what happens at at daddy's house needs to stay. I don't wanna know, did they stay up too late? I don't need to know if they ate too much candy. I don't need to know if they went did something dangerous on a four wheeler. I don't wanna know those things because it's just, yes I know that part is like very, honestly, that's like the scariest part for me. It's not the like. I think it comes from a different place because we didn't have a romantic relationship. There's so there's not a lot of emotional attachment to the decisions that I feel like he might make, and I don't think that there's ever gonna be a reason that he would make it to take a stab at me. And I'm not saying that's what all co-parents do, but it's a har, it's so much harder sort through those emotions when you are in a romantic relationship with someone. Because even me as a stepmom and hi, my husband as a dad, we don't align on everything, but like we definitely respect one another.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Totally. So when he does go back and forth, before we go into that, talk about how difficult it was for you guys to navigate your ovulation cycle and things like that. Because I'd be talking to him. Is Caroline pregnant yet? Is Caroline pregnant? Oh, she's flying in. Oh, we just flew a sample. Can you guys talk about that crazy time?
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:I would have to give it up to Caroline'cause she she was like the little engine that could, that never gave up. Driving sometimes every single month in the winter on icy roads from San Diego to Utah. It's a 10 and a half hour drive. And my dad, I think was more worried than I was about Caroline sometimes. Just did you check the weather and is it icy? Or why can't she just fly? I'll get her a ticket.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh, I love this family.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:yeah, I went out there I think three times. You flew a few times, but you drove most of the time. And I think it was the time for you to and relax and just really process what's going on.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I miss those drives to be honest. Like I'm looking forward to having those drives again in the future. Like I, flying there is so easy. Provo airport oh my gosh, best kept secret. When you can get like a good flight through. but, I don't know, like the timing was difficult because it was me learning a lot right up front because honestly, like I, even though I'm not queer in the queer community, fertility support is really difficult. I'm sure that this it's there's not a lot of resources or help out outside that's easy to come by you really have to figure it out. So I'm really grateful for a lot of those. Queer, trying to conceive communities because I was on there like stalking, like lurking all the time trying to understand okay, what can we do? So we tried we weren't in close proximity, then we try using like a sperm extender and and shipping
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:What's a firm extender?
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Oh, every
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:So
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:new to try. I loved it. This is
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:it's like a,
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:What.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:like one of those subscription boxes. Dory has got a new way to conceive every month.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Now you're gonna put it in this yolk, and this yolk is gonna preserve it even longer. And then next year you're gonna put it in a canine extens.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh my gosh.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I'm lost.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:okay, let me just start at step one. So this was not the primary way that we tried. This was the last resort, attempt, and I didn't know before this. And I think it's also really good for heterosexual couples to know because you're not always in the same place at the
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Especially around ovulation.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Exactly. They make something called a test yolk buffer that fertility clinics use. And there's literally like one company that you can order off of. And this one company closes for a specific amount of time throughout the year too. So you have to like order like they close for like months at a time. And then so you don't know how many you need. so like you have to like figure that part out too. There's a lot of timing things going on. But they send you this kit where it's like they give you all this direction on what to do and all you do is put your sperm in the cup, you mix it with the solution and it's like an egg yolk solution, but don't try it at home.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Like from what kind of eggs though?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I think chicken egg, I think yeah.'cause I was looking in can
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Wow.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:at home? But no, it's very dangerous.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Okay.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:you don't wanna, yeah. So you can use that and then overnight ship to, and it's successful some of the time, it's a long shot for a lot of people, especially. I'm almost 40 now and it would've been even like harder to see that happen. But yeah, it'd just come in the mail the next day and then
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Yeah.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I would inseminate with the at home insemination kit. But most of the time we tried to line it up where I use the mirror device, I don't know if you're familiar with, that's a fertility device that tracks all your major hormones. And lets you know when specifically you're going to be ovulating. You Line it up. And we had done flying back and forth, but what I found that gave me the most peace of mind and felt like it was the most like natural thing for me that I felt like I could do over and over again was a drive because I was like, I could just get in the car at 3:00 AM when my estrogen is starting to rise, and then go and see him. I did try to do some like biohacking and things like that where
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:for sure.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:my hands on some, like letrozole. I was desperate to like fig, make my ovulation be very predictable. Which it wasn't that unpredictable. It's just our travel schedules were crazy. Go ahead.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:tried for, it was a year and a half, I wanna say that, And I was thinking like. Even in like up, up to a year, I was like, maybe something's wrong with my sperm. So I get a sperm test done by my doctor and they're like, your health sperm is very active and it's very normal. And I'm like what if we ship it for 24 hours And there's so many rules and regulations that they're telling you. So we try to do it as many times as we could just in person with the insemination kit. we have some really funny stories about the insemination kit.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Dude tell.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:One time I thought that she was pregnant'cause she got I dunno if it was a false or a pregnancy positive, A false positive or if it was a implantation. The funniest one was one time I was trying to get the air out of the little syringe for her.'cause I don't want her to put any air up
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:her. And I, for some reason, cash made me laugh and it shot up on the ceiling and it was dripping down. It was dripping in Cash's hands. And I was like, Caroline, we have a problem. She's get it
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:He is. He didn't just say it like that. He was fully naked just covering its things. He opened his door. He was like terrified to tell me. He is ah,
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:What are we
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:we did a bad thing.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Yeah, I was talking to Off, she still used it, but that's what we,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I was like, scrape it off.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:yeah, like a little bit later she was like, I think I might be pregnant. And I said, if it's a girl, we're gonna name her Celine. And she didn't quite understand that babies come from the ceiling,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I was like why? Celine took me a second.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:So was that the time that you got pregnant? The ceiling room? It.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:a couple miscarriages. I've had a blighted ovum and then like a chemical, which is a early miscarriage. But no, I don't think it was that time. but, I do blame kind of those other attempts where it didn't work out. It was my own doing in a way, like biohacking your own body is probably not the best thing that one would do. But again, I was so like to make it happen in a specific amount of timeframe because I didn't, I felt for durras as well. I didn't wanna exhaust it and I didn't want to. What's that?
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:I was at the end of it where I was like, ah, maybe
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:and you said we'd try for a year and a half until we'd think about, IVF The hard part with getting some of your eggs retrieved. And To a lot of my friends. It happened to my best friend Jill as well, as soon as they made the appointment for IVF. We just tried one more time and then IVF is outta the option because now you're pregnant, that It happens to people that adopt sometimes just taking that out of their mind or the
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Exactly. Yeah.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:it allows something else to happen. Signed up for IVF before we we actually got pregnant.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah, I was pursuing that process at that time. So I had my, I had a couple eggs stored at one location that I was getting transferred and, just beginning the process of doing it, I just, I drug my feet through that because again, it's like really tough for couples when, especially when you have a, what's called a known don donor, not like a sperm donor. It would've been easy if I just wanted a sperm donor a lot easier. it would just be me going through the process, but now duress. Then there, there's this psychological evaluation you have to go through. It's like a six month process. There's this legal process that you have to go through.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:And I
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:just so much.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:okay with that. I'm like, when someone, couple that is chissy to co-parent together, they're not divorced, they don't hate each other, they're not gonna use their kids as weapons they want to make a beautiful baby together and they have 40 grand to do. So i's like why all the psychiatric evaluation, like why the legal things issues. So yeah. Caroline, you were very persistent, and I appreciate that so much in you. I think that's why I chose you as a partner, and one thing I noticed about Caroline is there's certain people in your life where you go into an elevator together and they know what floor you're staying on, they just sit back and they wait for you to always push the button, or they always wait for, you go into a parking lot and their windows roll down and you turn off your car, but then you have to turn it back on because they forgot to throw up the window. Caroline, you are not like that person. Like I can, it's hard for me to let my control or my guard down, because I'm used to doing everything for everyone. And I know that when Caroline, every time she would come here, before we started any of this, put her in charge of any task. It could be camping, it could be hiking, it could be making food, it could be cleaning. And she just did the best job ever at doing things. And I didn't have to it was just a weight off of my shoulder that I could rely on someone to do a good job at something and I don't have to worry about it anymore.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:So because you guys have this kind of extreme intimacy and because you're having a baby, like what kind of feedback already are you getting from acquaintances or people that know you about that intimacy and does it like secretly? Let you like, know we have this little secret and this little sort of things that we know about each other, that not even our partners know about us because we've been able to create this kind of friendship with such a deep level of trust that's never been broken, right? Because that's what we suffer from, right? From all of our past relationships. Like we are literally suffering from trust being broken. And when you don't have that in a friendship and now you're raising a family together with other people, how much how much jealousy from the other partners is there or will there be, or just from friends or your parents
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I don't know. Cash.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:cat.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Cash, he is glad to have his, like his man back.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:I think so
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:That's my sperm now. Thank you very much. It's all mine.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:every time he would just like my, he would try to sabotage the package. He's he's hilarious. God, I love cash. But It's interesting because I think a lot of people think it's gonna be some crazy dramatic soap opera, or some people are like, why would you co-parent with someone that you're not married to? And I even had uncles, growing up Mormon, and that was a whole nother issue getting into it. And they're like, they like, you shouldn't have kids because you're gonna raise them to be gay. And I'm just like, really? I'm like, my parents weren't gay and I turned out just fine.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:crossing my fingers.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Right.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I know every day that Sage says she has a crush on a boy, and I'm like, no, who is? She's mommy, I know it makes you uncomfortable. I'm like, can you at least choose someone that's like really metrosexual, like Uncle Reyes or Uncle Chuck? Like somebody like that Uncle Jason, like any of those guys. Let him at least be like him. These guys.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:So
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Right.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:yeah, the trust is so deep. I think with Caroline that I trust her with every single thing. Not just, she doesn't need to have my heart, she has Brendan's heart, and I have Cash's heart, trust her with my baby. Because I've had sisters and I've had best friends trust me with their kids at times when they really needed help. And I've gone for 40 days at a time to take care of a brand new infant and. I've learned so much from that. And I want Caroline to learn too, because I feel like parents learn more from kids than kids sometimes learn from parents. so
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh, again,
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:things that will refine you as a parent when you have to be patient, when you have to get creative, when you have to out the world around you and how it's spinning. And you have to bring some kind of calmness to that family, so I might be outside looking in, but I get to pop in whenever I want.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah, true. The joy.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I think there's probably more interesting scenarios in life because he he lives in Utah. There's like a, the Mormon community is probably gonna look down upon it a little bit more. And but it's so normalized with most of our world that there's not this controversy. And then for us, this, there's not this, dS kinda said it there, it's not dramatic. It's not like this heightened experience for us. I think the it's almost like anti cli climactic is the intimacy. It's there's not a lot of I don't wanna say work, but emotion, or the connection is obviously like incredible, but I think it, I don't know that I see it any differently than another soul connection. I just see DiUS as the person that would be the best dad. I, I. Think Darius is the only person that I would have ever hoped to have a friend that would do that. And I have an amazing friend group and a lot of gay guys in my life that like would be excellent fathers, but like the fact that he doesn't need the spotlight and attention at all times and his I know he's going to be someone that gives that back and forth with just communication and it's not about hi his ego or like a power trip or anything like that. Like it's really just a working relationship. It's, that's really like the neutrality of all of that is what I feel mostly drawn to, even in my relationship now. Like my husband is, very steady Eddy and like really just boring and that is what turns me on. And Doris isn't boring by any means, but like
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:comes to,
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Wait, what?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:It comes to just being able to help kids
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:My
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:develop.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:my very first tattoo is quince.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:beautiful.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:But yeah, he, I think he is very exciting, but but when it comes to just like the day-to-day stuff is like there's no drama that's ever worth like getting so worked up and, he's just so chill.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Thank
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I was a surrogate years and years ago before it became like popular. And it was such an amazing experience because while I was growing this little baby boy for his parents, I felt like. 100% responsible for sure. But I never felt like he was actually mine. It was like this invisible babysitting job. Right? And, I took good care of myself and, enjoyed the experience and had a wonderful easy birth and all those things. And when he left to go home with his parents, they lived in Rhode Island at the time. It was still really hard, to send him to live with his parents because we had our own bond. And the things that made it the hardest were once he was born, he thought. I was his mom because when I would talk, he would turn his head when she would talk, he wouldn't turn his head. He could smell me like all of these things. He was used to my rhythm and my, the way I walked and all these things. And he just was so peaceful and I would give him to her and he would, just kinda get so frustrated with that. So I do know like the differences of now having had four of my own kids, plus this, little surrogate guy and he. He's just a different person, obviously, than I would, and I don't even get to know him anymore. I still know his parents, but I don't know him, which is very sad. But that's the way that they wanted it. And I don't know why, because they'll check on me out of the blue, oh my gosh, we're thinking about you. We love you. But they've kept him very separate from me. And I think it would've been nice to like, have that relationship with him because I still think of him like a nephew, but a nephew, basically that I never get to see. So maybe for Dres it might feel like she's a surrogate, but she's not, obviously she's the mother of your child and vice versa.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Yeah.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:But it, you can think about it in this. This other realm of parenting versus like these two people having a baby together and now we're gonna have to wake up all night tonight, with the baby. And it's gonna be like this like challenge where it's gonna be completely different than that. Like when you come into towns, she's gonna be exhausted or not exhausted, but just happy to have you take him wherever to the park or stay at the house or what have you. And I think that having that relationship with all of the three of you and the baby is gonna be just more incredible than even like this surrogate positioning that I had. But how will you guys, when will you start telling him his story? Will it just be automatic? Like as soon as he comes out, like birth, like we talk about it in front of him with other people, we talk about it like, you know how it is or are you gonna keep it like a, this is how he got you story when you turn three, four, or five, six or something.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Yeah, for me, I think Caroline's already sharing the story. She sent me a video of her, this amazing book and calendar that she's put together and she's photos from, different times that she told, the grandma's, and it's incredible seeing my mom and her mom on there enjoying such a amazing moment. Like she told me is on there. a picture of my face is hilarious, so me, because. Nothing was really talked about when it came to sexuality, about choice. Growing up the way that I did in the Mormon religion was, it was a different, and it was very hard to a reality of what's out there in the world.'cause I was like in a bubble the whole time. I don't wanna hold anything back from my kid. That's ultimately up to Caroline and I respect her as doing the hardest part of the work in this because she will have the baby full time and I will be there to relieve her whenever she needs it. So I'm always there to listen to her counseling and she's the smartest, gonna be the smartest mom that I'll ever know besides my mom.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah, that's right. I think, yeah, you said it well. I think it's normalizing it upfront. It's, I don't want, last thing I want anyone to have to deal with is this idea that you're not gonna fit into the world with just this one choice ahead of you, like a heterosexual relationship. And how you have. and that's how you grow a family. And I think that we've done society such a disservice by not showing more different scenarios. We're getting better, but we, there's just so much to go forward with. You look at my life and I look like a very typical suburban housewife. I have a job and I work from home, but I look like I, you would never know my scenario, my actual scenario. And so think that it needs to be normalized, it needs to be talked about, and it's not a bad thing. And I think it's one thing to have like strong moral compasses, like working together in society, team building, things like that. But when it comes to things like religion is a great example where it can put some of these rules and things out there for people, kids who are developing and trying to understand like who they are as a person and becoming like their own person. Like I want our kid to be able to develop in the most healthy way possible. And I don't think that you can do that with putting boundaries like, religion because that's gonna say that his life was wrong. And so his not, it's not wrong. It's, he has the things that he needs and and we will make sure of it, obviously not perfectly, but who is right?
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:glad
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Exactly.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:At 46 rather than at 26 or in my twenties where
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah,
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:even know who I was or
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:even love myself. And I think a lot of people, they have kids so early in life and their brain isn't even fully developed. So sometimes it's kids raising kids there's nothing A lot of mistakes to make with that. But now I look at, Caroline's almost 40, I'm 46. Our partner's old as well. So it's almost like I think we have a better blueprint in action. What we would like to stick to, and we do. And a lot of my friends still, they're confused by the situation. We announced it on Instagram a few days ago, and I have people like saying, wait, is Brendan and Caroline having a baby? And then you and cash are gonna adopt their baby?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:They're just trying to make it work in their mind.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:That Dres would've a baby or, and cash is not having a baby. So it's just interesting how there's so many people thinking about it and they're like why would you do this and why would you do that? And story and everyone's choices are so unique. And it's funny because I was talking to my dad two days ago, and he's still pretty heavily into the latter day Saint Religion, the Mormon church. And I was talking to him about one of my friends who was very sour against the church. And my dad said something like the church just gets a really bad rap. And they do so much good and so much kindness people don't recognize. They only recognize all the negative and the bad. And I said, didn't feel like they were kind to me as a kid growing up gay. I was the only person. That I could think of that was gay. I didn't know a single gay person growing up and I thought I was the only one that was told I was going to hell. I was told that I'll never see my family again. And I said to my dad, I said, dad, it wasn't kind to a child like me trying to grow up and figure out life. And he said the church has changed their way since then. And then he goes, and you didn't have it that bad. And I got frustrated. I said, dad, you don't need to answer for me and my opinion. And he changed the subject like that.'cause he has come so far in our relationship. He loves Caroline, he loves the idea that I get to be a dad again and he's gonna be a grandpa times 20 now this is his 20th grandkid.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Woo.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:But it, it's just interesting how I think a lot of people. Think that their only happiness is to raise the kid the exact way that you want them to be, and they have to believe the same things that you believe in. And I can't wait to raise a kid where if they want to do A, B, or C for a job, instead of getting what I got as a kid you can't do that. You can't do that, and you can't do that because that doesn't follow Heavenly Father's plan. It's gonna be like, let's figure this out together. I want you to do whatever you want to do and I'm gonna be your biggest support. So be the, I wanna be the father that I wish I never had, even though I have a great dad. I don't need to replace him. I just get to do it a little bit different now with what I know.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah, he, what's interesting too is my hope for our kid will have a heavy influence from Reyes' family.'cause they, he does come from such a beautiful family and there's so much good about the family. But they will also be educated on different religions and what that means. But not, I'm not going to at all, have them grow up in religion. I want them to understand it and know about it and they can make their own decision one day. But that's not gonna be a part of our. It's my step kids, it's not part of their world, but they understand what religion is and what people believe and things like that. They have respect for those people. So it'll be interesting because there's gonna be a lot of that type of influence in his life. But think critical thinking will probably come at a young age.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yes, definitely. Like I think about how our daughter has come to realize how. Unique still that she really is right. She still is a sperm donor baby with two lesbian moms that are now divorced. We, we've had different conversations with her about being a sperm donor baby, but we haven't even shown her the whole like file that we have on him and we have his voice and everything because she just hasn't been that curious about it yet. She knows it's there. She knows we have it. We told her another story recently when Jures was visiting us, that we had initially wanted to do our insemination with him and things just didn't work out at the time because things were so much more strict back in 2012 when we were talking 20 11, 20 12 when we were talking about this.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Yeah.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:So she. It. Sometimes she's a little embarrassed that she's a donor baby, and when people say, oh, you must be tall like your dad, and like these stories, she, it's invisible. But she has so many donor siblings that have those same experiences that we've kept in close contact with like very close contact. Like we know everything and when anything changes, we'd put it up on there. And you're so lucky because you didn't have to choose an anonymous donor and you know how healthy all of Dre's nieces and nephews are and things like that. Like it's such a great gene pool to have gotten to Cho choose from. And that your son between both of you will have those people to see, which is what, even though. Our daughter sees these kids. I think the reality of them actually being half brothers and sisters doesn't feel like it. Like one of the sisters was
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:10 yesterday and it came up on Facebook and I go, look, here's your sister. She's turning 10 today. And she goes, oh, how cute. And that was it, because there's no like connection. So I miss that for her. I wish we could have what you guys have where these people are actually, your cousins and your siblings and things like that. Yeah. But they're growing up, I don't even know if it's in parallel to each other or what sort of circumstance it would be, because at any point, like sadly, she has 48 brothers and sisters. Yeah, that's a lot. So that's scary, right? That whole part of,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:overwhelming for her too. I can relate
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:yeah.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I have I'm one of 12 my there's two that I didn't get to know until I was an adult, and it became almost an overwhelming task to think about building a relationship at that point in my life with people that, because something that should be natural and develops family, and it's a lot of energy to, to an expectation to place. So I totally, I can only imagine what it must feel like for her.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah. Yeah I'm happy we've always talked about it, so there hasn't been a surprise. But there's a few moms in our sibling group that have not told their kids and don't plan on telling their kids,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh,
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:which I think is gonna be really rough, especially because of things like 23 and Me, which we did on our daughter, just so we could see where other siblings might be. And sure enough, some other ones popped up that we did not know about. So sadly, our donor had chosen to donate at another serv. Fertility clinic as well, and didn't disclose that. So that's why we came out with right now, the 48. We could probably have our own Netflix show, but,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:all of those people. It's insane. I like, literally one night I went to bed and I saw this message on 23 at me and said, we, you have a new DNA relative. I'm like, I have that all the time. And then the next line said, my son might be related to your daughter. And I'm like, wait, what? Holy crap. What?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh, wow.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:So I go on and sure enough, it's this lady that lives in Texas and she did the same thing. She wanted to find out who other siblings were, and she was the one that introduced our group to this whole east coast group of people that gave us 27 more siblings. So you are so lucky with that because, DRES
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:that,
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:stayed in you. And that's it as far as he's happily
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:that
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:performed.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah, that was a big concern because I was willing to do a anonymous burn donor the ultimate goal was to be a mom. It was really to have that experience. And obviously Dores was like the best case scenario. That's what I wanted the most. But at the same time, his ability to like do the long haul, like I was never gonna make him do like a five year stint of okay, I'm coming down. Like again. Would've never done that. And I think, ideating over the next. Potential sperm donor that took, that was definitely something that I wanted to avoid and just do a, like embryo donation. I was like, do I care that it's even mine and go into embryo donation because of how unregulated all of it is and it's, it can be traumatic for the kids afterwards. But it sounds like your daughter is definitely like probably very balanced with how she has to think about these types of Too, I'm sure.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah. And all the kids are so close together in age. On top of that, they're literally all 40 ish of them are between, they're all turning 12. The oldest ones are turning 12 this year, which is my daughter included to age. Six. So they're very close together. But we live all the go all, all over the country. So there isn't, that opportunity to have a real brother sister relationship, especially when you have that many moms. We only have one out of all of that. There's only one set of parents where the father was unable to conceive with his wife and that's why they chose that sperm donor. But everyone else was single moms by choice, which is absolutely a majority and a few lesbian couples. So it was, that was interesting to us too.'cause I thought we were just gonna meet like all these lesbian couples and we ended up meeting all these straight women that just couldn't find the partner that they wanted to have a baby with, and then they got all of us as sisters and all of our kids, as little kids. So we say we've got kidneys for everybody. If anyone needs a kidney, we've got kidneys.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:That's awesome.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Brian, what is your step kids? What are they? How are they taking everything? Because this was,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh, they were so excited. They were
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:they
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:they,
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:pillow. I bought you all every night.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:what's that?
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:They love,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh,
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:concerns with your pregnancy pillow.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:They bring it downstairs all the time. It's sitting on the couch right now because they always ask me to use it. So Dre sent me a pregnancy pillow and they would probably wear me as a skin suit if they could
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:my God.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:they like this idea of getting catered to as a pregnant person. But no, when we told them first, they, we have a small dog, so they opened up this onesie that I made for them, and they're like, would you get like a baby onesie for our dog? They like, couldn't understand. And then she, and then I had to tell'em like I was pregnant, and they were like, what? And so I, I then told'em who the actual dad was and my husband was really nervous about this. He was really like, he was like, maybe it's not the right time to tell them maybe we shouldn't do it. I was like, I'm telling'em whether you want me to or not. They're going to. take this information. They're gonna, they're gonna feel how they feel about it, regardless. It's whether it's now or, in a few weeks, like we're telling them. And so he just followed my lead on that. And they were ecstatic. Like they were so excited. If anything, they were, wanted Brent, my husband, to be the actual biological father because they are like looking forward to having a sibling. And I think that there is some worry that it because it's mine, their stepmom's. What if things in the future don't work out with me and their dad? And does that mean their sibling is taken away as well? And I can only imagine what that, that process, like them going through that. But like, when it comes to DeRay, they both love him. He's hard not to love, but When you're a kid, like
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:yes.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:he's so fun. and they've already had time to get to know him too, so they knew who he was and
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:How old are they?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:10 and 12.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:That rip? Old age of middle school.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:That's okay. They start school this week. But yeah they were so excited and they wanna make sure that they get to have a relationship with our baby, and they're almost annoyed that they're not gonna have enough time between now and when they go to college. They're
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Aw,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:about
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:that's So cute.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:yeah they're like, wait, wanna have this time to see them like grow up too. And so think what's special is that. They their upbringing was challenging in a way because going through divorce is not easy. And and so through that they were each other's rock, but now they have a new experience, I think of in a very different, it's gonna be a very different experience for them to have a healthy relationship with another sibling. And for our child, it's all they're gonna know. It's not gonna be this they're not gonna have to like, oh, you're not my actual real sibling or anything. They're just gonna know that's who Are. Yeah.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:What sort of responsibilities, will they have, like for the baby, are you gonna make them like involved in it or are you gonna be, because you're a new mom and it's, your first infant and things like that, do you feel like you'll be like more no, I wanna do everything and they wanna help and that sort of thing?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I'm sure I might feel certain ways at times, but I, like I learned long ago you should never say no to good help. Like you should never,
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Okay, girl.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:so I want them to be as hands on as they possibly can, as they want to. I wouldn't force anything other than taking some caretaking courses. Like I want, everybody needs to learn
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yes.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:for babies and things like that. And, but yeah, like I'm pretty sure my, my stepdaughter is going to feel like it's her child at some point, and that's okay with me. Like
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:yeah.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:that she's gonna feel that way.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:picked out, don't they? I'm sure they already have the names picked out.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh, they, yeah, they have so many, like who's, 12-year-old, years old and has an inappropriate mind sometimes wants to name it Richard. So he call it Dick.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Dick.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:It's like
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh my God, that's so funny.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:they just have these like funny funny ideas and yeah, as involved as they possibly can be, is what I want them to be. And same with really anyone that wants to love on our kid,
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:yeah.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:what I want. I don't have this at this point, I don't feel like that love is gonna be taken from me. I still get all of the love.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:What other things do you think people that are having a baby the way that you guys are having a baby, where one person is gay and one person is straight or on the spectrum of straight. As we keep learning about, What do you, what kind of advice would you give them for deciding to do this with someone or not?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I think a lot of it has to do with, straight women because they are the ones who are going to feel clock ticking. Like I think that this scenario likely originate through women like me. It the options are just limited. And I would say do it sooner than later. Don't. if you're okay with having a, your partner in the future and it doesn't have to be your biological father of your children, then that's what I would say is don't wait on it because there's other factors that can like hinder happened. I think it's though, because like it is my perspective, but there's a lot more limitations when you do have. A biological clock and you have to like, figure things out in a different timeframe. There's a little bit more pressure on that, and I think there's a lot more stigma when it comes to this is not as heard of. I'm in a heterosexual relationship and it's a different scenario bringing in my gay best friend and his fiance. I think for them what they have to deal with is like, where's your baby? Like, why does this lady get to keep your baby? And the parenting scenario with that is like how we're all gonna be involved. That questions come up a lot, but Doris, I don't know what, how would you feel like wise for someone in these scenarios?
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:I always go with my gut, and I always go with a friend like Caroline, like there were sometimes like 3, 4, 5, sometimes eight months would, could go by. And without saying a single word or a single text, but when you reconnect with that friend, it's almost like time has never stopped. You pick up right where you left off, you feel like you share the same soul, and I have a handful. Quincy, you're one, I feel like you're my sister.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Absolutely.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Always is like my sister. Explain it. So that's when that said, when those people come into your life you roll with it, and you just go with it. And you know that because you're a good person, they're a good person, things are gonna work out. And that doesn't mean that chaos might happen, but if chaos happens, it just makes life more fun. yeah, I think just anytime you get to create life that's gonna be full of love and non-judgment and just the beautiful things in this life that you get to share altogether, I think you're doing the right thing. Yeah.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I love that.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I think too, lastly, like with the advice portion too, don't ever force a person to do something that they are hesitant about. you see so many positions where one parent is not on board as much as the other, and then the other parent is like just disappointed with the lack of support and the help and you're like this is what it was gonna end up with. It's really tough to live out that. And you'd never say I told you but you will learn the hard way if you go into a scenario where one person, if I had made my husband convinced him somehow revert, right? Like I, it our, the quality of the relationship would not, like we, we wouldn't, I don't think that we'd last.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:So when you guys almost broke up, when you ended up telling him you were like, what do you call it? The last straw kind of thing? Guess what? My friend Dres said he would donate. Do you think that you go, you would've just turned around, mourned that relationship and then just said, okay, DRES, let's still do this. Like we're doing this because I need to do this now. I'm so ready. Do you think you would've done it alone?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:No, I think the latter part would've been so hard to predict. I would've mourned the relationship and I would've gotten over it.'cause that's where I thought it was heading. I don't know that I would've been strong enough at that time or had enough foresight to navigate that way.'cause I was still, I was 33, so I think I felt like I still had. time to find someone and have more of a traditional approach to it. It really just didn't come to life until I went through the relationship that I'm in now. I wish that I would've had that ability to be like, you know what? This wasn't it. Dores, you and I, let's do it now. We're now or never. Let's do it. We might as well. No I wish I would've thought that way. And that's why I say the advice is like do it. Like you're, in fact, if I had already had a child and I met my now husband, it would've been, it would've made things easier for him because he wouldn't have this pressure to sort through. Like, are we gonna make her needs met with this?
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:True. True. What about you, Dee? What would you have done if you ended up not having a baby with Caroline?
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Oh, just keep on going life. Just enjoy my nieces and nephews. Like I said before, I don't never felt like I needed to achieve that in this life. I think I had it in a past life. so yeah, I think it's gonna be an amazing thing to have. I know what kids bring to families. I know how they, you can't say what it's gonna do or how it's gonna change you until you actually have one. And it's oh, like people are recording me Oh, you just wait. You're gonna change like that as soon as you hold it for the first time. And I want to that's incredible, but that doesn't happen. I'm okay with that too, because I want that for Caroline. So for me it is just it's a dream that I never thought that I needed coming True.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I know even after I had s. When she came out, I mean there had been 21 years between her sister and her, and in between was the surrogate kid, which obviously, like I said, when I gave birth, I knew it wasn't my kid. So I had no oh my gosh, you're here. It was just like, you're here and you're as healthy as we thought you were gonna be. Here's your mom, kind of thing. But when she came out and the donor was anonymous, right? We only had these two photos of him between, I don't know, eight months and maybe three. And so when she came out, she didn't look like any of the other three children that I birthed. She didn't look like any of my nieces or nephews that I'd seen be born. And I just kinda looked at her and I knew that I loved her, but she looked so different. I didn't know what to think, I just had this I know this is my kid, but wow, she's so different. And I didn't have a love making experience right when I made her. And then you can go, oh, that night, we made this baby like I was in a clinic getting it shot up into my, uterus. And it was a beautiful thing and it worked the first time in the whole thing. But it somehow, through having already had these pregnancies and a very different pregnancy in between, I still had this weird reaction, right? But by the time we left the hospital, that had changed. But for even both of you, because of that experience, it's okay. I'm saying from my own experience to not have that oh my God, I'm so madly in love with you. Which is what I felt with my first two, like absolutely 100% madly in love. You are what I was looking for. And Sage came to us from, such a different place and she's so amazing and so special to so many people. It's just a different experience, right? You just go through a different experience,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:heard than not. Like I, I've heard a lot of different stories about that being the reality, and I think so much of it is very relative. It's how what are you comparing it against? And then what are your expectations? And then like also what does a present feel like? You're really factoring in so many different realities and you're like, is this what I'm supposed to feel like? And so I don't have a ton of expectation. I just wanna protect my peren.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Eat my my fruit.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I'm like,
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:you knows,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:sure
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:and tears. Yeah. True.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I'm sure the rest will come very naturally and in its own time too,
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:When you've lived, I think that Doris, you touched on it too, like it's different at. 25, 35, 45. I'm sure like having babies at all different times is so different. But I do think the amount of experiences that you've had and the challenges that you've gone through in life is really allows you to accept new un uncommon scenarios too in your own life.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:I feel like I get to sit back and just watch a little mini me come into this world. Like I know that you said you saw Sage for the first time. You're like, who is this? I'm like, but I see Carly so much of her. And I see so much of that and I think they grow into that as well. But I look at some of my nephews. Or my nieces, and I'm like, it's the exact spit image of watching my younger siblings grow up again, like with Rex, like that's a spit image of Nathan growing up. And I get to see that all over again. And I'm like, that's gonna be the cool thing I think about this is I get to maybe stay, take a step back and be like, okay, I get to watch myself now, grow up in this little mini version,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:is really excited about having a boy.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:And you would be more excited if you had a girl, correct.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I was gonna be, I really wanted a girl, but for reasons. I, there's a lot of mental health issues on my, my family, and specifically the men in my family, they've dealt with a lot. So my biggest concern was that experience for birthing a man. And that would be really difficult to see later in their life happen. But I think, with our genetics, like am, I'm living a very healthy life. And Dores is also living a really healthy life and he has a lot of people in his family who don't have those issues.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Yeah, and you had me take a quiz and it was like some type of a dramatic, like things that happened to you as a childhood
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah, the ACE test, adverse Child Experience
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:And soon she my
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:test.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:like check you're the what?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah. I
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh my goodness.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:score is supposed to be like very low for the adverse child experiences. And my score is very high and dos like has one,
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh my gosh. So lucky.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:so lucky.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:my dad was right. My childhood wasn't that bad. Maybe it's all just in.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:was the one.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Damn it. Thank you guys for coming on sharing this like incredible, credible story. I wanna know, is this baby going to have its own like Instagram so that it has these different
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:say we haven't talked.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:That's why I wanted a boy, because we're trying to raise a girl with Instagram and TikTok and all these things right now that, that scares me. Like worrying about I was in the beauty industry for, I still am 25 years, and I watched the insecurities that happen with especially women trying to look like they're influencers and they're affiliates. And so Caroline, that's up to you if you want to give our baby screen time devices,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:No, that's so funny. This is a good question to ask.'cause this is one of the things that I don't think that we have really talked about. I prefer even not showing the child's face after a certain age on social. Like after, when they go into, when they can become like, recognizable kids. Like I don't think I want the world to see who that person is until they have the consent to give that. And with my step kids, I don't show clear images of their faces. I even if they were like, yeah, we wanna post that, or something like that, I don't consider that consent until they are old enough to like really understand all of that. Because I think that's one of the biggest mistakes that we're making as. As humans is like there said, like we are messing people up because of the social environment that we put in them. And while I think it would be so fun and I want our story to be told, and I want that to be out there, but I think there's a way that we could do it without exploiting and
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Yeah.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Showing too much of the child because I think that's a whole different thing. He's Own person Own ideas about that. We shouldn't be making those choices for him.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:I want them to develop in a way where they're not influenced by the outside. I'm blessed that I was raised without a lot of the technology in my life. I was outside all day every day and came home at when it got dark.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:It was incredible. But I know times have changed. I know that if you don't
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:the time and every kid is gonna have a phone, every kid is gonna have Instagram account, so you can't withhold But there's just a way to explain it.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah. Yeah.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:we had later Caroline? We got.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I'm sure it's gonna come as a Yeah we'll have to address it as it comes, but yeah, they need to have a phone if they're gonna be traveling between the two of us, it's not like they're, they will have lack of device, but part, it really does concern me. I'm like, with our step kids it's tough to limit all of that and still stay connected and whatnot. So I'm sure it's gonna look different another 10 years from now too.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:We will for some.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:We'll need your advice.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Okay, good. Don't have a phone. Sage still doesn't have a phone. She uses a phone of mine that we have. But yeah it's a daily challenge. It's a daily challenge, but why shouldn't I? Couldn't I, wouldn't it be nice? Don't you trust me? You said by now I could have it, and all those things. And I, we keep changing the narrative because the narrative keeps changing. I'm sorry, but TikTok is crazy and Snapchat's even worse, and Instagram's on my phone that you have a little account that you get 15 minutes a day. It's completely different,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:yes.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:so it's just, it is a daily conversation for sure. But anyway, thank you guys. Again, I hope that we, if you want to, we could do these interviews like as you get closer after birth so that people can hear the story as we go. I think that would be a really phenomenal opportunity for people to keep up with, what does it look like now? If you wanna induce and is no, don't, because this happened to two of my sisters and my other sister-in-law, those sorts of things. Who gets,
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I couldn't imagine theres having this like opinion on that.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:I'm like, you do you Caroline? I'm
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I think the only thing, yeah, that could be interesting too. Yes. The answer is yes. I would love to, follow up. But
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:for three
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:the other with yeah, duress. I think we'll have to make the decision on like circumcision versus not, so that's his big decision he gets to make
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:you're doing, wait, you don't wanna do it, and Dres, you do wanna do it.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:It's up to Doria.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh, okay.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:just give it.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:because I'm circumcised. I always thought you do it so that like they recognize you with their dad. But there's a lot of things where I'm reading now about how it might not be the safest thing or the most pleasurable thing too when they're older. It changes a lot of'em. So yeah, I'll
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I know.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:things that I didn't know was up to me, but we'll make
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:We, I was actually talking to my husband about it the other day and letting him, I was getting his feedback on certain things and I was like, I think I'm just gonna leave this decision to dores a lot easier.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah. Who cuts the cord? Who does this? Who does?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:So Exactly.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:be gonna be there during the childbirth, Caroline, or am I gonna be outside?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:want to be, yeah. I imagined that you would be,'cause you'd wanna maybe cut the cord and things like that, but
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:about that. So
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:What's that?
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:I was 16 when I watched my sister give birth for the first time.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I know. Yeah, I know you've seen a lot.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:So it's just, it was up to you. Like those are things that we'll talk about.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Are you delivering at home?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:No I fantasized about stuff like that. I don't think it's the most safe. For me. But I am working with a midwife and My pregnancy stays uneventful so I can stay with the midwife program. That's also with UCSD, so it's with a hospital chain.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:good.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I'll likely give birth in a hospital. It, but I'm exploring different ideas. I have a like a genetic condition where my heart could have an electrical, like I could have a cardiac event if there's too much stress on my heart. So I have to get like a cardiologist to see if there's any true symptoms of that, like surfacing and then what that means for my care and then what that could, where that might take me to how I wanna deliver. So it might change, but
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Okay.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:thought about lots of different scenarios and what. I want, I think it's so important that the baby's healthy. Like obviously that's number Also I'm thinking like, what's healthy for me?
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Yeah.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Body trained. By what age did you say?
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:oh yeah. so much we could go into on what I wanna do. I wanna there's a, I think this is not the like most appropriate term I've heard, but it's called elimination communication. It's something that they've done in other countries because they either don't have the resources or it's just culturally what they do is where they potty train really early. So like you could do it from newborn stage and you just learn what their signals are when they're about to go to the bathroom and then you put'em over the little toilet and they, it's a little bit more of a natural gradual way for them to learn. But. It's gotta be on it. And then I don't know what that's gonna look like with childcare and things like that. Like they're gonna be like, you want your six month to go in the toilet?
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Oh my God, that's so cute.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:always researching. You're always coming up with new ideas and what about this? What about that? And you're on it. That's awesome.
caroline-ashton--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:I don't think I've even told you, I, I joined a study as well. First UCSD it's a healthy baby study, so it's they're tracking like the pregnancy course. And then they also will track the child to see their development, making sure that, like learning really, it's a study, so they're learning to see like the healthy development of the child and and whatnot. But
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:That's awesome.
quincy--she-her-_1_08-10-2025_130607:Very cool. Good for you guys. Alright, we're gonna end here, but stick around just for a couple seconds'cause it has to upload before I can let you guys go so we'll.
darais_1_08-10-2025_140607:Thank.
