From Queer Queries to Golden Retriever Revelations with Michelle Flamer-Powell

Join us on this episode of 'Cocoon After Dark' as we dive into the multifaceted life of Michelle Flamer-Powell. Michelle shares her journey through queer motherhood, corporate leadership, and spirituality while adding her unique humor and vulnerability. She reveals insights about deep conversations being her 'kink,' navigating through heartbreak, and finding solace in spiritual practices such as astrology and IFS therapy. Michelle also touches on her co-hosting role in the 'Live Out Loud' podcast, her experiences with dating, and the challenges of living authentically. This candid and enlightening conversation goes beyond the surface, offering raw and real-life lessons.

00:00 Introduction to Michelle Flamer-Powell

01:16 Fun and Vulnerable Questions

02:48 Deep Conversations and Personal Insights

06:51 Coming Out and Personal History

13:34 Podcasting and Spirituality

19:49 Therapy and Personal Growth

23:29 Camp Memories and Parenting Reflections

32:30 Volunteering and Future Plans

33:47 Podcast Rituals and Human Design

34:48 Exploring Human Design Types

35:21 Parenting with Human Design

38:18 Embracing Authenticity and Boundaries

40:11 Political Frustrations and Social Media

47:52 Navigating Dating and Astrology

54:55 Funny and Awkward Dating Stories

01:04:28 Concluding Thoughts and Future Plans

Transcript

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 0:00

Hey guys. Welcome to Cocoon After Dark. Michelle Slammer Powell is our guest tonight, and her story spans queer motherhood, corporate leadership, spiritual practice, and co-hosting the Live Out Loud podcast with River. The vulnerable and humorous points regarding Michelle and her life as a mom, her life as a business person, and her life. Experiencing what I just found out mushrooms. So through Michelle's messy middles, we're talking transitions, heartbreak, spirituality, astrology, and the power of rewilding ourselves. This conversation isn't about shiny sound bites, it's about uncovering what's raw, real, and useful. Ready to go.

MicheleFlamer: 0:46

Yep. Always.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 0:47

Alright. Do you wanna say anything before we get started?

MicheleFlamer: 0:50

Whoa, that was a great intro. We are so used to on Live Out Loud having our guests do their own intro because I like to hear how they see themselves sometimes. And that was really fun to have my life wrapped up a little bit in that like, you know, one part of my life, that dynamic and, um, but yeah, that was really great. I enjoyed that. to go.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 1:15

cool. So we're gonna start out with like really vulnerable questions, but before we start with that, I always like to start with just some fun questions just to kind of get relaxed. And the first question I have is, what is your biggest kink?

MicheleFlamer: 1:32

Hmm. Oh God. I, I would say deep conversations. I learned something about myself over the last couple of years that I am deeply into, profound conversation and wanting to know whoever's in front of me. I really love knowing what makes people tick. And it's not for showboating. It's not to throw back in their face. It's not at all. It's like I love understanding where someone comes from in a deep way so that I can just better understand them and better understand how to hold space or whatever that is in the moment. So I think my kink is like reciprocity, like having that lovely back and forth. It's kind of like a mental, like a cerebral tennis match. And I, I love that

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 2:28

So very sapiosexual.

MicheleFlamer: 2:30

very, and yeah, and, and a demi as well. Of course. That kinda all goes together.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 2:36

Awesome. So if you could have dinner and spend 48 hours with somebody, who would it be? Living or dead?

MicheleFlamer: 2:46

Okay. Honestly, I think right now I'm really on a Dr. Orna kick from couples therapy. I am rewatching it with one of my best friends, Michelle, and she got a new puppy. And so I was a dog trainer for 10 years and a canine cop in the Air Force. So, I'm here for emotional and and mental support, was interested in checking it out and I am just fascinated at how psychoanalysts look at people and look at couples therapy. And I literally have learned so much about that sappio sexual part of me, it's like how she leans in and how she gets curious. And I literally just said to Michelle, probably like, while we were watching an episode about a half an hour ago, and I said, God, I just, I know I'm gonna bump into her in New York. I know when I'm there in January, I'm manifesting this. I wanna bump into her and like just have a quick conversation with her and let her know honestly like how much she's taught me things and how I've learned so much. So I think I'd love to hang out with Dr. Orner for like 48 hours. It'd be amazing.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 3:58

my gosh. That sounds really, really cool. She's impressive. Very impressive.

MicheleFlamer: 4:02

She is and she, also has such a flare for style. She's just rad. Like I just wanna, yeah. I just like really wanna hang out with her and her dog Nico. Let's go walk Central Park and and have dinner and hang out. I wanna experience like being around someone who has that level of, of depth and awareness of how the human psyche

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 4:25

Yeah. But how do you think she, not keeps a straight face, but how do you think that they can keep from having their face show every emotion that they're experiencing? Because you can tell sometimes she's so miffed or so disappointed or so shocked, but in a very sort of austere sort of way, and not in this oh mom, you know, kind of way, but how they do

MicheleFlamer: 4:49

I think when you're so present in a moment with somebody that I think, yes, her eyes show us all these different nuances, but she's literally trying to put these little mapped pieces together, so I think we're seeing her in that process. It's just, I think we're seeing her kind of like, I think we're just watching her process, but I agree. I mean, sometimes. No, I did. I think it's fun because sometimes you do see her break out and actually smile, like when the person's like getting it, or they're like laughing at themselves and she doesn't smile very often. So when she does, it's like, oh my God, she's actually really enjoying the moment. And it's kind of, it's kind of fascinating.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 5:31

Right. I just wonder how much to you go to bed. You know, when you hear shocking stories from your friends and you go to bed and like it keeps replaying and then you have a dream about it or you're in that situation, like how as a therapist you how shut it off. You know, it's like a social worker or my dad was a firefighter. You know, all these like traumatic sorts of jobs that you have, how do you shut it off? But that's an entirely different

MicheleFlamer: 5:58

No, you're right. I mean, no, no, I, I think the same thing in that sense. It's like, God, that's a lot. Like sometimes after you see her, the people leave and she's like sitting there, she's like, oh. But I think, I mean, I have friends who are therapists and they just tell me like, they just compartmentalize it really well.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 6:17

I don't know. I'm good at compartmentalizing, but I feel like I get more and more empathetic, which I do not like you know, the older I get, I wish I didn't like that is definitely one of the things I say to my daughter, I wish that I didn't have these, knowing things or these feelings about, or this, um, just like deep knowledge of something that I don't think I know about, but all of a It's like being shot into my brain and I'm like, no, no, I don't wanna know that. I don't wanna know that. Please, please, please. Like, that's the last thing I need. So let's go back to you. So who were you before embracing the title Lifelong Lesbian. What parts of your old self still surprise you when they surface?

MicheleFlamer: 7:01

Hmm. I came out what I thought was a little later, um, not later in life, lesbian later, but I came out when I was 19. Um, before that I didn't realize, but I had an Olivia Newton John scrapbook that I created. So I guess I was gay a lot longer than I obviously thought, and I just wasn't aware of it. I was a really good rule follower, honestly. And, um, I'm actually still quite a rural follower, but, I was a tomboy. I know this for a fact. I'm a lifelong athlete, and, played tennis from the age of six, but I always played with my brother's friends. He was younger, but my brother Kenny and I played, at the park, And,'cause I grew up in Los Angeles for the people who don't know who I am, but, um, van Nuys, Sherman Oaks was where they filmed, the bad news bears. And that was my life. Like I lived and breathed baseball. I was a catcher, my little brother, was the pitcher, so I was also a people pleaser. My parents got divorced when I was nine. I kind of kept people together. Like my brother I watched after him when my mom finally had to go back to work. And, you know, it's, I think it's really, I think I just walked through the world really trying to be a good girl, like. Like in the, the most general sense, like, let's not make too many waves. Let's also be the best possible friend for anybody who was new. Two of my oldest friends all moved in, um, changed schools from different states when they were 13. So Vantage Junior High. And I was their first friend. I was the one who walked up to them and said, hi, I'm Michelle. What's your name? And that's still very much who I am, but um, I just realized that I definitely wanted people to feel included. Like that was really important for me.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 9:10

So you said something that you were a good girl before you came out. Did you think that coming out was going to make you a bad girl? Did you think it was going to disappoint people? Or what did, what made you use the word good girl before you came out?

MicheleFlamer: 9:26

Yeah, I think, I think for that moment, um, in time when I was, when I was reconciling that, wow, this is maybe not a phase. I was dating a boy pretty seriously, a Jewish boy. I only dated Jewish boys. It was funny. I've never dated a Jewish woman. Um, but I've dated on, yeah, I only

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 9:47

like that's all I ever date is Jewish women, but

MicheleFlamer: 9:49

oh, that's hilarious. So, um, wait, are you a chika?

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 9:54

No,

MicheleFlamer: 9:55

You're Jewish too?

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 9:56

no, I'm

MicheleFlamer: 9:57

Yeah, Chika. Yeah. Catholic Chika is like non-Jewish.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 10:02

I thought it meant somebody that was like more like Christiany, like mid-Westerner and I'm not

MicheleFlamer: 10:08

that, that test is, that's, it's sort of a whole like Yiddish term of like, you're just not

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 10:13

I only know Hebrew. I don't know any Yiddish. In fact, I know a lot of Hebrew considering I'm not Jewish. I know a

MicheleFlamer: 10:19

that's great.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 10:20

Hebrew, and that's from my Israeli girlfriends.'cause they're not Jewish girlfriends. They're Israeli

MicheleFlamer: 10:25

there, that's a whole other breed That is, you're not, yeah, the Jewish American princesses from New York and Long Island, like, yeah. That Israeli women are really, really different. Really strong. Really, uh, really interesting. But, uh, yeah, beautiful light green eyes, like that color hair, you know, the color skin and all that sort of stuff. But, um, so I had a, you know, a very significant boyfriend going into college and he was on the baseball team and I'd be, I came out during that part of my life and I had to, I had to come out to him and break up with him and my mom just when I told her that I was gay, I think she just said like, so I'm not gonna have any grandchildren. And so I think I was really concerned about their. Oh, they would react honestly. I mean, it's only right and luckily I'm, I've been very lucky. I've never had any negative energy faced my way or like any negative connotations. I don't feel like, like yes, I look very gay now, but I didn't back then. And I kind of have always led with just me. And the fact that I'm gay is just like a part of me. It's like, even though it's a whole part of me, it's, it's only like what I lead with is, is like, it's a little bit in that

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 11:49

Mm-hmm. I hear you.

MicheleFlamer: 11:50

Like when I, like when I meet like these lovely later in life lesbians, I realized I have like no rainbow stuff. Like I don't put flags up. They are so excited. They have like rainbow bands, rainbow earrings, rainbow, all this stuff. And I'm like, it's so funny. I'm just like, I'm just me. I'm just gay. I'm, I am just who I am.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 12:10

Well, and I think the difference for more like femme looking lesbians is that it's hard to attract other lesbians unless they're more mask, right? Because you do tend to wear things that make people go, oh, they're gay, right? But also it's hard to walk around in a room, walk into a restaurant, walk into a bar, walk into a party and not people think, oh, there's the straight, straight girls coming in. Right. So definitely wearing things that sort of ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. So you can get like easier acceptance. Not that people are not accepting, but it does get old, right? I mean, the in LA is one of the prime places where most lesbians don't even go anymore because there's so many straight girls there. There's so many straight or

MicheleFlamer: 13:00

Bachelorette parties

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 13:01

parties. It's

MicheleFlamer: 13:02

horrible. I hate it.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 13:04

It gets, it gets really old and then they try to hit on you and you're like, come on, you guys. This isn't a fad for us. We're not your prize for the night. You know, this is our life. We live this life like this. And for you to come in and sort of use us as your Disneyland really is offensive. So, I don't know how many of you are listening to this. You're welcome to come to the Abbey, but only hit on your own friends you bring and not me or my friends, because it's really irritating. Yeah. If you're straight so let's go back to you again. Um, so where's your line between meaningful work and burnout?'cause you talk a lot about burnout and in your podcast when you guys use tarot and woo. How do you not get tired of your own topics for your show?

MicheleFlamer: 13:51

Hmm. Um. I think River and I just really enjoy. Talking to each other. I think it's what I've heard from people, um, messaging. And it's funny'cause people mostly message me. She's like, God, I never get any messages. And I'm like, I, I, I don't know what that is, but, um, it's just hilarious. Maybe they think she's, um, not as perceptive. Like I come off maybe a little bit more like say hello, talk to me, say, you know, that kind of thing. But, um, I think from what I hear about people, they really tell us what they love when we do talk. And our highest ranking, um, episodes tend to be on spirituality or, um, relevant topics to the moment. River and I love to deep dive. I think the core value in my front row of my best friends. Um, we all verbally process. I think women who don't have, a community based already for themselves.'cause so many of the women that listen are about to get divorced in a really challenging relationship or marriage are single moms so we try to find value in topics that hopefully add, you know, a couple of like easy gimmies that they can start, um, developing new habits or skills for themself. I, I, the, the mantra or maybe the mission statement really is that we just want one person to go. That changes everything for me. That's something cool. I'm gonna try that this week. So I think those topics we don't get tired of. And then people say we love listening to the two of you because I feel like they feel like they're like a little fly on our conversation'cause we're just having our conversations and talking and, and I still am really curious about my friends. And so I think people enjoy the fact that. I'm still learning about River. We've been friends for, you know, about three years and I think it's really enjoyable. So when we touch on topics sometimes we're like, I have never had this topic with you. Like, we're excited to just like, unpack it together. And, um, so I don't, we don't have that burnout. Plus, when she has her kids throughout the week, she's very tapped out. So by the time we sit and record, we're like so excited to just like, download the week and like see what's happening. Or if she's like, maybe talking and dating, you know, talking to somebody new or if I'm talking to somebody new, like, you know, so I, I don't feel like there's that burnout that happens.'cause I literally wish it was my job. Like I could do this all the time.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 16:56

To podcast like constantly.

MicheleFlamer: 16:59

Heck yeah. I would love it.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 17:01

That's so cool. So when you guys started your podcast and you wanted to talk about, spirituality and things like that, did you want it to be mostly for L-G-B-T-Q community or just lesbian community, or did you want it to be basically for everybody that was interested in that topic?

MicheleFlamer: 17:19

That's a great question. I think the term, the reasoning for calling it live out Loud and out is capitalized was originally for sure meant for. Queer people to like step into their authentic space and walk their truth. And it still remains to that day. However, it's expanded to women in general. Like I just want it to be a vehicle for women to feel like they're seen again or they're learning something. There's, there's some type of value in it that we're just not spewing shit that I, we very intentional about the end result. And, you know, posting something or you know, in the show notes that, you know, they'll go, oh yeah, I can go back to that now. And they don't have to take notes. They could just drive and listen or walk and listen and wherever they, wherever everyone podcasts. Think the audience is kind of little broader, but it's all still women. In fact, one of my really sweet Jewish male friends, his name is Brian. He is so cute and he's, he's, he's straight, he loves listening to the podcast because he's dating and he's like, you guys give me a really great insight to women and also you're giving me like great fodder for conversation. And I love, I love that he's like using it where it's hilarious because I have a younger brother also 16 years younger than me from my dad and my stepmom and I told him to read People Magazine and I told him to read different things so that when he went out on a date with a girl, he would have like other things that are more like lifestyle oriented that she would probably resonate with or he would, or she would be like, this guy kind of knows what's happening in the world. So when I. So, exactly. So Brian is the same, and he listens. He's, he texted me just yesterday. I really love the new episode. I got this out of it. I had my girlfriend, this new girl that he's dating, listened to it with me and it was very cute.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 19:27

gosh. That's so cute. So you guys talk a lot about transitions in your show, cosmic seasonal life stage changing. You guys were talking about your coffees the other day, which I thought was really funny. What's a recent transition that didn't feel spiritual or magical at first, but later you saw as actually a turning point in your becoming?

MicheleFlamer: 19:49

Ooh, these are good questions. Um, I probably would say when I, I probably would say therapy and around, um, learning about IFS internal family systems,

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 20:07

haven't heard that exact term.

MicheleFlamer: 20:09

it. Yeah, so it's Dr. Schwartz. He created it and it meant that all that we are created and, and a sum of parts that. You have little Quincy, you have 8-year-old Quincy, you have 10-year-old Quincy. If you could look back at your own childhood, I would say, if you could identify, then you have manager Quincy, then you have parent, Quincy, mother, daughter, and we are created of all these parts. So when we are working through trauma or we are working through, um, ne navigating, negotiating in life, it's, it's where, who are we tapping into? And then it's saying to those little parts, part of the therapy is like when you're, when you're really work, it's like little mini soul retrievals. So that's where the spiritual part comes into play for me in that sense, because you're going into this space where I'll explain, uh, so two summers ago. Caden went to camp for the first time. And you know, it's that Caden is my kid. Yeah. My 14-year-old, beautiful, smart, empathetic little Alpha um, oh man, these kids are incredible these days. But so Caden's going to camp away to away camp for the first time you, you know, and as a woman, as a girl, you've gotta wait until they're sort of, of that age where I know she can say no to whomever and tell us about it. Right? Like it's that safety part portion. So it was triggering for me because I was up on deck. Um, my ex-wife Carrie said, Hey, will you, you're, it's on your week that you're gonna drop her off. Will you make sure to pack her and I'll get the labels, blah, blah, blah. So it was a team effort, but I was. Putting all these labels on, doing the laundry, get, making sure my Amazon deliveries all on time. So she had everything she needed that was on the list and anything extra that I knew would give comfort. It was two weeks away. Her first like, and this kid since the day, a preschool has never once looked back for us. So this kid is very independent and strong on her own behalf, but also very like in herself, right? Very proud of her. But she is literally kindergarten, like my ex-wife will be crying. Caden's like, see ya, see you later. Suckers never missed us. Like she's just that kind of kid. So I was thinking about the time when I went.'cause I loved camp. I went to away

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 22:52

I loved,

MicheleFlamer: 22:53

ex Me too. I went to Camper MA in

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 22:57

oh.

MicheleFlamer: 22:57

and it was a gor gorgeous area. And it was a month away. My brother and I went and I loved it so much. My dad was like, I've never seen you two look so good. You know, it's like, camp is so good. Carrie never had the opportunity. She came from a very, uh, a little bit more poor family and really didn't have these opportunities. And I said, well, these are the opportunities that we can, I wanna afford for my child. Like, this is important. And, and, and when I'm doing it. And this goes back, I had a flash of the time that I went the first time my mom was going on a trip to Guatemala. They had a horrible divorce, by the way. There was no co-parenting really. It was parallel parenting. Um, they, my mom could barely stand. My dad and my stepmom at that point. My mom left that morning that my dad was gonna come pick us up for Guatemala. She didn't do anything to prepare us for camp Zero, nil zero. So I'm in this space of joyful content, like packing this child up, putting everything, showing her everything. So when she got to camp, even as she unzipped this big bag that I bought for her with wheels like this big luggage duffle, you, you know, total, total camp experience, what? I wanted her to feel so confident knowing where everything was, and she really appreciates that kind of stuff. Like, thanks mom. She doesn't wanna be like, where? Looking for things and feeling that, that trauma, right, of like, where is everything? My mom just fucking left. Just goodbye. Like I'm finishing the laundry when my dad comes and my stepmom comes to pick us up. We are going to camp in 36 hours, the bus leaves. And they're like, where is your stuff? And I go, mom didn't pack anything. I'm literally doing laundry right now. And I remember us having to run around Encino and there was a surplus store and that's where we went to get like some of our stuff. And I just remember like we were just being dragged from place to place and you know, Mary Jean had had the best penmanship and, and a sharpie to like write our names on everything and get everything set. It was such a whirlwind. And then we got dropped off at camp. So I'm in this moment and I've been doing E-M-D-E-D-M-R with my therapist. I've been doing IFS and all of a sudden I am in therapy and it occurred to me, I start crying and I realize like my mom literally didn't give a shit at that moment. And like here I am in full blown parental mom joy, knowing like, what my child's gonna go, like the whole thing. And I call my mom. So I'm like, after therapy, I'm like, I gotta call my mom on this. Like, I really wanted to hear what she said and I go, mom, I'm gonna ask you a tough question. And she's used to me doing this. Now I'm, I'm gonna, uh, yeah. I've like, I have so many interesting stories over the last three years since the divorce. Like her and I have like gone to another level in our relationship and I'm really grateful that she goes there with me. But it's my learning. Through Dr. Orna, my learning through therapy and spirituality that I am now able to hold space and also let my mom know immediately knowing that it's gonna trigger her that I have a hard question for you. I have zero judgment in your answer. It's more about curiosity for my sake. And she's like, okay, thank you for prefacing that. I go, I want you to know that I know you did the best you could. So beyond that, I love you. Like, you know, I'm not going anywhere. Like we're here, we're good. And I said, mom, do you remember when I, when ma, when Kenny and I were going to o uh, we camper ma? She goes, oh yeah. I go, do you remember your Guatemala trip? And she's like, yeah. I go, do you remember that the two correlated, like you didn't think to like. The kids are getting picked up on Saturday. Maybe I should fly out on Sunday just to make sure that the kids are okay and ready to go. And she goes, no, I really was so burnt at what was happening in my life. And this was like one of my first big trips. She was going on an archeological dig, she's a photographer and Aquarius like just wants to do different things. And I didn't really think about it much. And I was like at, at that moment, I really could have gone two ways there. It really could have been like, holy fuck. Fuck you. Like I could be so pissed right now, but I was almost so shocked by the truth of all of it, and I think her truth was so much more important for me than little Michelle needed here at that moment. That that 52-year-old Michelle at that moment, or 54 Michelle, whatever it was, 54-year-old could say to little Michelle, oh, that's mom. That was mom's truth. You're okay. Like you now can enjoy the moment because. This is what I talk about with my friends and talk about on the, on podcasts and stuff. But it's like duality of life is so important because we cannot experience joy without sorrow. We can't experience, um, understanding ourselves without doing the work. Like it's, it's always mixed with two things. Like, and I was just maybe, so it, it really did catch me off guard. I was in the car, I'd just come crying from therapy and here my mom is like, yeah, not sorry, like I was fucking out. I was burnt. I was done. I needed to go fill my own cup up. And as a mom and now as a single mom or shared, you know, true co-parenting mom. I get time and space to fill my cup. Caden really doesn't see either of us depleted unless, unless anxiety is happening that week or something. But we we're, you know, I have the space and capacity and I think the reason why I live in that space of I look forward to the time without her is because I know I'm doing things that will make me a better parent when she comes back to

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 29:51

Right. I always tell people the greatest thing about being divorced is not seeing your kids all the time. And obviously when you first are getting divorced, that's your biggest concern is that you won't see your kids all the time. But once you get used to that downtime, like you said, to reset, and we're not talking about a day while they're at school or the weekend while they're at a friend's birthday party, we are talking about an overnight where you go to bed when you want, you watch what you want, you eat what you want, you wake up when you want, you work out when you want, like everything is what you want, and they come back to you and you literally are this whole new person and regular, everyday dual parent households or single moms that don't have another person. They do not get that break. And it is so stressful when you talk about your mom sending you to camp. The same thing happened with us. I was 10, my brother was eight, and I remember my mom on this phone call crying, and literally 30 minutes later we had bags packed and she was driving us to camp. It was on a Monday, and I don't know if she heard from somebody that there was camp or whatever, but she could not stand us for another minute. And we were driving to camp and we were like, mom, where are you taking us to camp? And we didn't know what camp was. I mean, we're 10 and eight. We had no idea what camp was, and it was the best week of my life. I don't remember ever getting dressed or undressed or anything other than having the time of my life. My brother had an entirely different experience, but literally, if I would've known that there was boarding school after I went to camp, I would've begged to go to boarding school because that was. Literally where I should have been. I would have been a completely different person. Be raising myself versus raising myself and being around constant conflict and fighting and, you know, like not a very happy childhood. And while

MicheleFlamer: 31:43

Mm-hmm.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 31:43

feel like I had a lot of opportunities and I had a lot of lessons and I had a lot of experiences, it was so difficult. And that was the only time we went to camp, other than with school, like sixth grade camp. And then I went to leadership camp, you know, and things like this. But in that moment, my mom was either gonna kill us, kill herself, or take us to camp. And thank God she, she chose to take us to camp.

MicheleFlamer: 32:05

She chose. Right.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 32:07

Yeah, she did.

MicheleFlamer: 32:08

I think I, and I, and I wish more kids, like I was laughing'cause I played the lottery this time'cause it was like 1.7 bill. Right. Like, and I was thinking of all the things that I would love to do, like with that kind of funds. And it's like one of those is I would love to, um, send kids to camp that can't afford it and things like that. I do think it's so valuable. So I am part of the one in 10 organization.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 32:33

Oh, really? I don't know

MicheleFlamer: 32:34

and, and yeah, it's in Arizona and it's a youth organization for queer kids and they have camp. And so, um, next summer I wanna volunteer and do more volunteer and I wanted to volunteer throughout, throughout the year now too, but also just help out wherever I can and provide, you know, it's really cool. It's literally like a half, you know, like a half a mile from my house. So it's cool.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 32:58

gosh. Is it an overnight camp or is it

MicheleFlamer: 33:01

There is a note. They do, they have several overnight camps, so I even told Caden if she wants to go to one of those queer ones, she could,'cause she falls into that category

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 33:09

Well, isn't she old enough by next year to do like a counselor in training sort of position too?

MicheleFlamer: 33:14

pro probably. Yeah. And she went to a camp this last summer, um, this pa in Cata on Catalina. She went to a marine camp and she loved it. So hopefully she will be doing that next year. And, um, again, I just watched her go on the boat over to Catalina. She just waved. She barely waved to me. She said, well see you sucker. I, I mean, I'm grateful that my child is like that. It's like crazy. She could care less if I say hi to her or text her or message her when she's at camp. It's like, it's hilarious.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 33:47

So when you and River Host living out loud and you talk about your spiritual practices, rituals, and maybe some resistance when you record, how do you show up for yourself? Is there a ritual that you do before you record?

MicheleFlamer: 34:02

Yeah, I mean, just the pre-chat is our full on ritual, like we, and, and that's honestly, I'm the one who kind of creates the script a little bit and some of the questions, so then I send it to her. Um, I'm, I'm a generator in human design. I don't know if you're listeners are human design oriented, but check out human design. Um, what it does, and it takes from the eing and it takes from astrology and there's, you know, five, five types. And so it's, one is a generator that's made, one is a projector, which is Caden. And you can even, there's a really beautiful blog about how to parent through human design. And there's a, I, we could have a whole podcast on that, an episode on that. But then there's a reflector. They're very rare. Um, but they mirror back a lot of what you know, you are. And then there's um, okay. Generator, projector, reflector. Manifester, which is what river is. And then there's manifester generators. Have you done, have you seen If you're okay, alright. I'll send you the link afterwards and maybe you can put'em in the show notes.'cause I think, I think it'll be fascinating for people to do that, and especially if they have kids, um, to figure out what their kids are because it's really, it's really cool. So River is a manifester. She comes up with a lot of the ideas, the generator puts those ideas into motion and makes it like doable. Like really, like bite-size, doable. Um, and so the other way that being a generator shows up is like in the morning when I wake up, I am literally raring to go for the day. I'm a true morning person and that goes to my generator self. It's like, I'm ready, let's do this thing. So, um,

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 35:53

like it's me too.

MicheleFlamer: 35:55

you, you're a

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 35:56

Oh, I must be, because it totally sounds like me. Like I wake up and, no, it's, let's go everybody. Come on.

MicheleFlamer: 36:04

so then you have a daughter who, or a child, whoever, you know, if, if it could, you know, son, daughter, whatever, as a projector. She needs a slow roll in the morning. I thought she was lazy. I actually felt really guilty for kind of like, why the why? Let's fucking go. Let's go do something fun today. Like, you know, that kind of thing. And she's like, no. So Friday night, if I do wanna do something with her on Saturday, Hey babe, we're gonna go do like, I have two ideas for us. What do you wanna do? She picks it out of those two. I'm not asking her if she wants to,'cause I a hundred percent know she wants to be in her bathing in a bathing suit or like in her pajamas all day long. Because projectors are much like when you think of an introvert, they need to literally recharge in a quiet room they need. And then the other part of their personality is the way to get them out of their cell, out of their room, um, is to. Engage in the sense of what they like, get led up on. So I ask Caden, I have a really interesting thought and I am not quite sure of what this, where this is gonna go, but I'd love your input. Oh. That gets my child completely lit up and I've, and I now do that with her when we're with family. I go, but Caden, when we were talking the other day and you were talking about X, Y, Z, I thought it was so fascinating. I be, grandma would think it was neat too, and again, lit up and then she start, and then I'm getting notes from my family going, God, Caden was so talkative and so engaging tonight. And it's because I've learned intentionally how to do this with her. And she is on the way home excited. Like I really shared with them. Like I taught them some fun stuff tonight. It's really fun. So I love human design, but when it comes to all of that, you know, other stuff, and I even forgot where we were going with this, but Yeah.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 38:09

That is okay. That's okay.

MicheleFlamer: 38:11

Oh, oh yeah. You were saying like, yeah, it's the pre-chat. The pre-chat is our, is a, is our, is the ritual. Yeah.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 38:18

So when you talk about vulnerability about divorce and shame and rewilding, what's the hardest truth that you are still trying to unlearn?

MicheleFlamer: 38:27

Mm. That I'm not too much,

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 38:31

Mm.

MicheleFlamer: 38:32

that I'm, I'm a lot. And, and the other truth of that is, is like really recognizing that I'm not for everybody and being more than Okay with that at

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 38:46

I think something, I mean, part of that has to do with just our age in general, right? You hit 50 and you're just like that Melanie lady that's on Instagram, the don't give a fuck club. Like I don't give a fuck. Like you can be mad at me. Like after the last, this last week of all this stuff that happened, I literally posted on my Facebook, which I hate Facebook with a passion. If

MicheleFlamer: 39:06

me too. Me too.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 39:08

to Instagram, I would not have anything to do with it, but I have. More people that follow me on Facebook, that do on my Instagram.'cause I'm, my Instagram is private, so you know, there's a lot of lesbians on Facebook. But I finally, literally posted about an hour before we did this, if you, this, this, and this, please unfollow me now because

MicheleFlamer: 39:29

Mm.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 39:30

just can't deal with it anymore. And I can't go through and figure out who's what and I'm not gonna spend that kind of time. So when you see this, just get out of my feed because we don't have the time or the capacity for people to like us anymore. And don't debate with me, just unfollow me.'cause that's what I do to you. I'm not even gonna say anything about your post. I'm like, Uhuh unfriend. Nope. Not on my side of the border. Nope, not on my side of the L-G-B-T-Q-Q flag. Not on my side of the, you know, parenting decisions. Nope, nope, nope, nope. I just,

MicheleFlamer: 40:00

So when, when did, yeah, but when did you, when were you, when did you find that strength to just like not give a fuck when you turned 50? Is that when you sort of started.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 40:09

definitely before that. But definitely I feel like since Obama got elected, I've gotten less and less patient with people not caring about other people and literally voting against my lifestyle choices. Like if somebody decided that they only wanted to eat with a spoon and the person I voted for said everyone that eats with a spoon is bad and can't have rights and has to like leave the country and all these things, I would be like, no. My mom or my best friend eats with spoons and only eats with spoons. Like I would try to back you up, you know? But now you're talking about my actual life and you say, you're my friend. You say that you are my family member, and yet you are voting for everything that is against me.

MicheleFlamer: 40:57

Mm-hmm.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 40:58

can't do it anymore. I just cannot do it anymore. And I, I said something yesterday too. I said, the difference between you and me is I'm gonna be in your corner no matter what. Even if I disagree with it because you care about it. I care about it. You know? But me caring about what you care about means that you care about lots of other people, not just about yourself.

MicheleFlamer: 41:20

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's what's gone on. I haven't done a cleanup of Facebook since, since the first election of the re of the Cheeto. Um, I did a big cleanup again this week. I think I was, I was really put off by how many people in my feed were believing this rhetoric. And the irony, I mean, the true in, sadly, in your neck or in your face, irony by what? That what I mean. It, it, it is just a script you couldn't have written yourself. Like, and now he'll be the martyr and now he'll be this, you know, love child to to, to our chief Cheeto. And it just makes no sense. It's like I'm really trying to be empathetic and, and there's a lot of people who are, they've lost that empathy and they claim to be Catholic, Christian, God fearing people, but guess what? That is a hundred percent not what God intended. If we're talking about spirit spirituality, like I really do speak more through spirit and. The universe and creator, or however you wanna look at it. I've always kind of, even through Judaism as as open and as loving as, as I honestly, if it's not like Hasidic, and obviously everything to me is on a spectrum. I always talk, I talk about this a lot, but since COVID, I really realized like everything is on a spectrum. Whether it's sexuality, gender, um, religion, politics, um, everything is on a spectrum. And it just depends on where you fall, like how aligned you'll be and how you see people. But I was really shocked this week by people who were like, prac, uh, this, because I, I be praising Charlie Kirk. I just could not. Get over it and I just was just quietly unfriending thing. I just can't have it in the feed even. And I don't like Facebook, like you said either. It's like, it's so annoying. But I just know that that's how, where most of my family keeps in touch and sees pictures of the kid and you know, family's not like all that. It's like blah, blah, I can't wait till one day. I really do at one day and I'm just gonna unplug everything. Like I can't. I look forward to that day.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 44:04

Yeah. I wish there was a way to delete Facebook without having to delete Instagram, because Instagram, you can be so much more particular, I feel in my private one, I'm super, super particular. In my public facing ones. I mean, whoever's following is following. I don't even know who these people, I don't look, I don't count, I don't do anything. Unless they say something specific about being a gay person or a mom. They'll say things like, how dare you raise your child knowing that you're gay and things like this. And I'm like, oh my God, you don't even want to talk to me right now. And I just delete their comment and I block them because they're not somebody that I need trying to put that energy towards me. Even one of my cousins this week posted something about the whole events of this week, and I said, but I'm your cousin. And I just left at that, and I haven't heard from her. She may have unfunded me, which is fine. She asked to be a friend of mine on my Instagram recently, where I've deleted her years ago. She came back and I was like, I'm not adding you back on here. You, you don't agree with my lifestyle. Why do I, why do you need to be in my feed? You don't.

MicheleFlamer: 45:09

No, it, it's so true. No, it's totally true. I think the other thing is, I think. It's, it's gotten so out of hand that even true, like when I think of Republicans, I think of, I think of like the MIT Romneys of the world where they're just, it's about business. It's about money. At the end of the day, it's about, it's about, you know, certain rights and it's about like, yeah, they don't love the whole liberal thing, but they're also like. There's a place for all of it. There's, there was a sense of, um, there was a sense of grace, you know, back in the, the Bush era and like, you know, and like the first George. Yeah. And especially Reagan, like the Reagan years. Like there was still a classy side to GOP at that point. And now what, what I love, and for whatever reason follow this guy, I'll have to send him to you. He's literally talking about how, why are we still calling them republicans when they really, currently, in the current administration, there is three parties, basically the Democrats, the GOP, and the fascists. Let's call them what they are not, they're not Republicans. And that it almost does a disservice to the old classic Republicans who are still, who are still voting on the terms of what is really important to them and not falling prey to the social media fascism that is going on today from the TV personality and where he stands and how he voices things. So I find all of that really fascinating thought because I don't necessarily believe in a two party system. I wish, I wish there was someone who could stand up for Green Party or an independent and, and like I could, I could really follow them where they could cross and buffer the aisles and bridge it's, we need someone who's gonna bridge going forward, and I still don't see someone who can do that. It's still us against them.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 47:20

And them against us and yeah.

MicheleFlamer: 47:23

Yeah. It's just so, it's, it's fascinating, but I think spirituality and all of that is like, I think you just have to have faith and you have to have a knowing of things will get better because the ebb and flow of politics is one thing. Um, the other thing is give a bunch of liberals a reason to be pissed off, and that's when good shit happens.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 47:51

True. Alright, let's move on from that and let's go into the woo and the astrology part of dating.

MicheleFlamer: 47:58

Hmm.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 48:00

So what's the weirdest like thing that's ever happened to you on a date?

MicheleFlamer: 48:07

Oh, it was one of the first dates I went on after the divorce. This woman clearly should not have been on the dating site. And let me set preface this. There's a lot of unhealed human beings who should not be on dating sites at the moment. Not to say that they weren't like, I'm still unhealed, but like a little further in their journey. There's just a lot of people who it's, it's where their intention lies. Anyways, this woman, I'll give you a real brief. She basically was in this really, well, she was married to this woman who was a cop. And this cop left her for a 22-year-old at the gym. Female girl, 22-year-old girl. They have a 4-year-old to, they have a 4-year-old together. Oh, she was probably in her forties. And so they have a 4-year-old together, they're in the relationship for like five years and this and this cop goes off and like date. So she shows up on the date. Literally maybe two weeks out of this whole thing. And I, and I proceed to be her therapist for the date. She is crying and upset and so on our way out. And I was really proud of myself'cause I said, okay, there's just, I said, there's two things. I said, one, you need to get off the dating sites. You, you are not fit to date. You were

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 49:30

said that to her, or you said

MicheleFlamer: 49:32

Oh yeah. I said it to her. No, I said it to her. I said as she was like, can I give you a hug? And I'm like, sure, I'll give you a hug. Goodbye. And I go, she goes, she looks at me and she goes, I know we're probably not gonna see each other again. I go, yeah, probably. And I said, there's two things. If you are open to hearing two things from me. She goes, oh totally. She goes, I really like, she was very appreciative like that. I sat and listened. I was like, I had a burger and some sweet potato fries. I was happy, but I was just listening to her. Download all this, and I said, one, you shouldn't be on a dating site. She goes, agreed. I go, please promise me you're, you go home right now and you delete yourself from wherever platform I go. You need to build community and you need a therapist. Second, you just need to like get to the, like, get help. Like in this case, like take care of yourself, realize like whatever else. So it was, she was like, okay, I'll do that. Yeah.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 50:29

Okay. What, okay, so when someone says what sign they are, do you ask them before you're gonna date them or after they date'em, or do you find out during the date and you're like, oh, this is definitely not gonna happen.

MicheleFlamer: 50:41

I think in my older, my younger years, I didn't know about astrology like I do now. I don't know. And now I know a lot more to know that there's a lot of nuances depending upon your, what your sunshine is is only one tiny, tiny version of who you are and how you show up in the world. So two is like your moon sign is really more about where you stand in relationships. So if someone says, you're a Pisces, I'm gonna say, or, or let's say a cancer. I know they're big feelers, like big feelings, like that kind of stuff. I honestly wanna get to know them a little bit more and then I kind of say, what are your signs? Do you know your, like, or have you, are you on the pattern or CoStar or anything like that? Because then I'm like, do you mind if we like, you know, connect on there so I can kind of see, especially if they're not very familiar with all their horse, you know, their, their astrology. Then I'm like, is it okay if I look at that just for a little bit just to understand the dynamic here a little bit more, but. I don't just go outta the gate because it doesn't tell me anything. Like I have questions now after a couple of years of, um, learning more about what I want before, like I started like truly intentionally dating, um, to look for, you know, my next partner.'cause it's worth the wait. Like I'm not, I'm not a girlfriend. I'm not a girlfriend material. Like, I realize that too. That's like a part of the knowing nowadays is like I'm looking for a life partner. It's a very different, it's a very different way to date because I'm not just dating to fill space. I'm really happy in my life. Like, I feel space in all the ways that I wanna fill space and I don't need to fill a void with somebody and being demisexual and I need to have that deeper connection. So knowing more about astrology these days. You cannot, it's a rookie move to think, you know somebody by just their sunshine. You've gotta understand like sun rising moon, and then get to know them a little bit because it all has something to, it. All comes into play.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 52:57

But I look at it like a bag of potato chips. Okay? They come out with this new flavor, right? And when you travel, let's give that as an example. You travel to another place. There are different Doritos lays, whatever the names of the other chips are. I don't really eat many chips, so I can't name a lot of chips, but you look at the bag of chips, it's a new flavor, and you know that chips are crunchy. You know that they're salty. Unless it says sweet, it's still gonna say salty. Because sweet and salty are complimentary on the food wheel. You open the bag of chips, they smell good, they look good. You take a bite. That is not a fucking potato chip. That is like some disguise thing. So I literally, if you tell me from this day forward, you are a Gemini, I am running as far away from you as possible because I know when I bite into that fucking chip that's supposed to be tasty, salty, crunchy, and everything else, the Gemini is supposed to be, they're not like that. They are not like, I have not met one Gemini that's supposed to be like they're, other than that, they flip on a dime like

MicheleFlamer: 54:03

Literally my best friend in the other room is a Gemini, and I love her. Yeah,

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 54:07

everything else. I can't, I can't do it. And I love the Geminis that are in my life. They're very, I love them. I have a very special heart. But could I, probably not.

MicheleFlamer: 54:18

But have you looked at the Geminis that you've dated and seen what their moon sign and their rising signs are?

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 54:26

No. I don't even know what they're, because they, you can't even get them to go and take the damn test because they think that they're amazing.

MicheleFlamer: 54:33

oh my God. They don't need to take a test. Just ask them where they were born.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 54:37

Oh, and do it myself.

MicheleFlamer: 54:38

What? Yeah, you can totally add a

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 54:41

even know that.

MicheleFlamer: 54:42

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they probably do, but you just have to ask those, those

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 54:48

at your birth certificate. What does it say? That's not my daddy. Yeah, exactly.

MicheleFlamer: 54:54

God.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 54:55

What, what's the funniest lie you've told to get out of a date or on a date?

MicheleFlamer: 55:00

Mm. Oh, I think it was like Cooper.'cause you know, use it on the dog. Well, my dog had diarrhea and I just wanna get home so that I can check on him, or something like that. I try not to put it on like, you know, like, oh, my dead grandmother or something. You know, I, I don't wanna do that karma. So something like, but a lot of times I don't, I mean, I don't date a lot. I really don't like go on tons of dates. So I am literally talking and having FaceTimes before I even say yes to like, uh, an in-person.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 55:32

before I meet them in person. I had to do that one time and I was like, oh, disgusting. I will never do this again. No, I don't wanna see what.

MicheleFlamer: 55:39

now it, well, it's funny because I will put, I usually put like on a, like a screen behind me or whatever, but, um, it doesn't really matter. I mean, it's like, for me, it's more about, I just wanna see if there's, like, how they talk and I wanna see their hand movements, or I wanna see some things before wasting an hour or two. Like in real life, like, I'd rather just have like a 30 minute FaceTime and see if they're still, if it still flows really nice, you know.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 56:09

Well, I had an, an interesting experience. I was set up on a blind date and before the blind date, they wanted me to have a conversation with them on the phone. Man did we hit it off on the phone. Like I loved their voice. I loved like just the flow of conversation. She was amazing. It was just like really, really amazing. And when I met her in person, no, no.

MicheleFlamer: 56:36

So what was off? What was like

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 56:38

disappointed. I was not disappointed, like in, I'm disappointed that you guys set me up with this person. How could you do that? But so disappointed in that. Everything about the way that she came off on the phone was. Fake basically. It wasn't fake like it was legit, but when she met me in person, she was so insecure, like, you know, all of these things, like she basically fell apart. And I was so bummed because being behind the phone and not seeing and not having to be seen makes you much more confident, right? Like if you have a really confident, strong voice, people expect that when they meet you and when that, for me,'cause I like you, to be really confident was, it was such a turnoff. So it was like, eh, nope, that's not gonna happen.

MicheleFlamer: 57:27

I think it also just comes to this sense of people knowing themselves when they're dating. I mean, everybody shows up a different way. Like I was talking to this one woman and we did meet at a bar like at one of my favorite, like it's a women owned bar, not a gay bar, but it's women owned and I like to support it. It's a cool brewery and in, in Phoenix, and she had the weirdest nervous ticks and, and she said,

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 57:53

like how you're moving your shoulder up and down since no one can see you.

MicheleFlamer: 57:57

I know, but I was like showing you like, it was like a weird, and I said, are you okay? Like, is this like normal? Like, because if that's normal No, I, I do, I ask like I'm, I need to know. And I'm like, are you like, are you being ner, are you nervous? So here I am at the corner of the bar, like she's, you know, next to me, to my right at the other corner. Like we're in the corner and there's a couple, um, a straight couple next to us and the guy has his feet on the, on the bar stool, like the bottom bar. You know how sometimes they put those brass bars all along and he's bouncing it up and down. So I'm having this on my left side going like, and I'm like just trying to have a conversation. And her, with her weird, like, ner I go, I go, is uh, she goes, well, I am kind of nervous. And I go, well, what do you need? Do you need to say like, do you need to get something off you? Like just talk, like if it, if this'll help you, but I could not do it. I was like, I know she was more into me at that point, but I was like, I cannot do this. Like that is such a turn off. So I get it. Like confidence is definitely sexy.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 59:10

Very sexy, and I don't, I don't mind if you're demurely not confident like that is, that has a sexiness to it where I can tell that I make you nervous. But if you're just like not comfortable in your skin and you're not comfortable having a conversation face-to-face, you can't keep looking me in the eye and all those kinds of things. That's like a definite, definite no-no,

MicheleFlamer: 59:33

Well, I think it's funny because I think it's like a prerequisite being me being masked. Like I walk around and people know I'm gay, like I can talk. But, and the cool thing is I was in Sedona recently with, um, a friend I've known for three years on social media and we finally got to hang out, uh, yeah. In person. And, um, I was, and she was like walking with me and she'd been going through a breakup. You actually know her from our group, so, but you know, so it's cool. But it was so sweet because she was like. I was talking to these guys, these straight guys were coming down this little suite. Like we were going for a view in Sedona. And these guys were like, they had like little cactuses on their, on their, on their, um, shirts and they were with their wives very clearly, but I like that they were like embracing the desert vibe, you know? And I go, I go, I'm really vibing off your guys' shirts. And they were like, yeah, right. Like, thanks, da da da. And she very clearly was like, oh my God, my ex-girlfriend.'cause she's dated Jo Masks. And so she's like my two ex-girlfriends. They would not interact the way that you do in the world. And I said, well, it's probably because I've been out for so long and I'm in business and I'm at trade shows a lot, and I was a standup. Like I did standup and improv and like, you know, I'm just a very, I really am like the ultimate golden retriever in that way. I mean, my hair's more husky these days, but, you know, giving off Siberian Husky. But, but I am very much a golden retriever that way. And she just thought it was really, she enjoyed the fact that I, and realizing she's like. I go, well, I can kind of talk to everybody because the women clearly know I'm gay right off the bat, right the way I look. Right. So I'm not threatening to a lot. So the straight guys, they are like, let's have a beer, I'll be your wing man. You know? And then the straight women are like totally cool with me. And then the gay women are fine because they're like, you know, hey, you know the nod, you know what's

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 1:01:28

Mm-hmm.

MicheleFlamer: 1:01:29

And then you know, it's like I can talk to every and gay men, they love my boobs or they just love me or whatever. And it's like I being, being masked in the world and looking and presenting very masked has really been good to me.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 1:01:44

That's awesome. That is awesome.

MicheleFlamer: 1:01:46

It's funny. It's funny though. It's like I don't think about it'cause I just walk around. But it's really lovely when you're single for so long and then you're around other people who can recognize or can be a witness in the moment. And those are the times I really miss a relationship where you can have someone as like a witness to your life. You know? It's really so sweet.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 1:02:13

So I have just a couple more quick questions. What's the funniest way somebody tried to impress you on a date and failed miserably?

MicheleFlamer: 1:02:22

I don't think I've had any, like, interesting, I don't know if they were trying to be funny or like I said, like I bear, I don't go on a lot of dates. It's like I, I don't, I think I try to really come from a space of let's just speak our truth, that if they're. He like doing something else. Like I probably would just be turned off by it. Like, like, you don't have to do anything to impress me. Like, there's no reason to do that, but, you know, so yeah, I haven't really experienced that.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 1:02:51

Okay. I'm trying not to laugh because a particular thing popped into my

MicheleFlamer: 1:02:55

I wanted, I wanted to say you've got something.'cause,'cause typically if we're asking questions, we had something happen. So now dirt. Give me the dirt.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 1:03:05

No, it was just so funny. I think it was probably like our second or third date and I was really into riding my bike for a while. And I'm not talking like mountain biking or anything like that. Like literally I have a cruiser and I like to ride from Marina ZelRay to Santa Monica a couple times a day or whatever. And so she brought over her bike and we were getting ready to leave my house where I lived and she decided to speed up a little bit. Well, there was sand there when she was coming around the corner. So as she's going straight and starts to turn the corner, she literally just laid it down like that right in front of me. And I swear I peed my pants just, I was so funny And she. She like fell off the bike and then rolled over on her bike and she's like, oh my God, I can't believe it. This is so embarrassing. And she was so embarrassed for herself. And I'm just laughing, laughing, laughing. I'm not even thinking It's actually embarrassing. I'm knowing that she's embarrassed. I'm just laughing so hard because it was like that slow mo com slow motion

MicheleFlamer: 1:04:02

Oh yeah.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 1:04:02

like boom, like this.

MicheleFlamer: 1:04:04

you wish you had a video going on at that moment?

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 1:04:07

it was so funny. So that's, that's what I was gonna say. Um,

MicheleFlamer: 1:04:10

Were you ni Were you nice to her though when she got like, yeah, I

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 1:04:13

I was like, are you okay? Did you get, uh, after I stopped laughing, which took probably 10 minutes, but once I could get a breath in and say, are you okay? And

MicheleFlamer: 1:04:23

oh my god. Poor thing.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 1:04:24

things, she was fine. But yes, I did make sure she was okay. Um, so have you ever had a breakup so absurd that made you laugh while you were crying? Like was it just

MicheleFlamer: 1:04:36

Okay, well this is another thing where I don't fall into that category because I've had two very long, I'm a serial monogamist at this point. I guess I've had two significant relationships. One was eight years and the other was my ex-wife, 18 years. So I'm literally, this is the first time I've been single since I was in my twenties.

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 1:04:57

Yeah, that's a long time then to be

MicheleFlamer: 1:04:59

So yeah, so I haven't really had anything like, you know, I wish, I wish I had some fun stories, but

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 1:05:07

Hopefully not. Hopefully you never have to come back to us with an absurd breakup story.

MicheleFlamer: 1:05:12

I know,

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 1:05:13

thank you for coming on the show. I appreciate it. I'm just gonna wrap up with, this is been interesting and fun to chat with you. We didn't get into Woo as much as I thought we could have, but I know that there's gonna be other times for us to do that and I hope that you wanna come back on the show and we can talk about maybe if you decide to write a book or there's something very specific that you know that our audience would love, I would love to have you back on the show. So

MicheleFlamer: 1:05:39

I would love that. And I am, and I am finishing up a book, but yes, I would love to talk about that

quincy-beauty-Quincy.michele (1): 1:05:44

How did I know that? I don't know. Alright, stay on with me so we can upload and then we're good to go.