Wild and Free: Kayla Nielsen’s Spirited Voyage through Love and Healing

In this episode, we sit down with Kayla Nielsen, a world-renowned yoga teacher, podcaster, and survivor of domestic violence. Kayla shares her powerful story of reclaiming her body and life as she navigates through trauma, love, and healing. Married to Alex, Kayla speaks about their journey together, from meeting in Nicaragua to building a life founded on love and safety. The discussion delves deep into topics like the aftermath of domestic violence, the importance of self-trust, and the transformative power of queer love. Learn how Kayla turned her pain into purpose and how yoga played a pivotal role in her healing process.

00:00 Introduction to Kayla Nielsen

01:01 Meeting Alex: A Love Story Begins

07:03 Building a Life Together

17:37 Navigating Infertility and Surrogacy

21:16 Surviving Domestic Violence

27:02 Navigating Unexpected Love

27:46 Coping with Trauma and Addiction

30:35 Legal Battles and Re-traumatization

33:49 Support Systems in Domestic Violence

39:59 Healing Through Yoga and Meditation

44:08 Living and Traveling Abroad

48:04 Meditation and Self-Healing Practices

53:10 Teaching Yoga and Addressing Trauma

54:13 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Kayla's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kaylalanielsen/

Cocoon After Dark Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cocoonafterdark/

Transcript

Kayla: 0:00

ERs welcome back. And today I have somebody I think you're really, really

Quincy: 0:05

gonna enjoy. This is Kayla Nielsen and

Kayla: 0:08

sometimes stories feel like fire burning away the everything that

Quincy: 0:12

no longer belongs. Kayla Nielsen is one of those

Kayla: 0:16

stories. She's a world renowned yoga teacher and podcaster, a woman who survived domestic violence and a healer who now teaches others to reclaim their bodies as home. Married to Alex. She embodies what it means to be loved out loud, to choose safety without apology, and to transform pain into purpose. Today we're not just talking about yoga, we're talking about survival, rebirth, and the power of queer love as a sanctuary. to the show. Thank you. What a beautiful intro. That was awesome.

Quincy: 0:47

Thank you. Thank you. I love doing that because it is nice to hear people talk about you. It's kind of like reading your, your biography.

Kayla: 0:54

Yeah. Yeah. That was so, so nice. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Quincy: 1:00

You are welcome. So I stumbled upon you guys on Instagram I found you guys on Instagram and I was like, oh my gosh, this amazing, you know, queer couple. This is awesome. And then I saw that you guys live in Encinitas and I used to live in Encinitas. Like all of these things

Kayla: 1:14

I know.

Quincy: 1:15

and resonating and I was like, I have to talk to these too. And then Alex couldn't come. So everyone, you'll have to hear some other time, hopefully when Alex feels brave enough to come onto the show with us.

Kayla: 1:27

Well, I mean it's less about bravery and more just, she works corporate, so she works in tech finance, like very different life than me, so her schedule is just not quite as flexible.

Quincy: 1:38

I hear you. I hear you. Great. So we're going to get started. Usually I start with a few like, uh, just fun questions. the first question I have to you is, what did your body whisper to you the moment you met Alex?

Kayla: 1:54

Oh. I mean, the moment I met her, the moment I met her, I was super jet lagged and cranky, and so I was like. Uh, and she was my roommate in a dorm room. We were in Nicaragua on a surf trip, and I was 31 at the time. And so I was like not happy about being in a dorm room at that age. I was like, I've outgrown this. I didn't, I was just kind of annoyed. So then the manager was like, oh, that, that girl's in your room, she's one of your roommates. And I was like. Cool. I mean, I was honestly not, I was not super stoked, but then once I slept and actually was like a whole real person, then we hit it off right away and I was like, I like her.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 2:38

Nice. So, because you guys were sharing a room, did anything happen on the strip?

Kayla: 2:43

No, no, not at all. Like,

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 2:46

okay.

Kayla: 2:46

even close. Um, it did nothing happened with us for a few weeks and we shared a room for a while as well. So she, we met in Southern Nicaragua and we were only together for five days. Like I said, she works. Corporate tech, so very, you know, kind of strict structure with her job. This was over the holidays, over New Year's and everything, so she had taken that time off. She had to go back to work and then went back to the states and we continued texting. I stayed in Nicaragua because at the time I was living out of a backpack. I didn't have a home base, so I was just in Nicaragua, kind of like as long as I could be, and I went up to the north, which I liked a lot more. I was texting her, I was like, you have to come back here, because I knew both of us individually, before we knew each other, were looking for land abroad. And I had found this piece of land up north that I fell in love with, but it was too big and therefore too expensive for me to get on my own. And so I asked this random girl who I met three weeks before, if she wanted to buy it with me.

Quincy: 3:49

Oh my God, that's so classic. Awesome.

Kayla: 3:52

Yeah. So I convinced her to come back. She came back, stayed with me. Still, nothing happened. Nothing. Ha like we, nothing physically happened with us for probably, I don't know exactly how long it was, but we fully had like confessed our love and feelings to each other before even kissing. Like anything had ever happened. Yeah,

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 4:11

romantic actually.

Kayla: 4:12

it was, yeah, it was really sweet.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 4:15

And it like puts such a different spin on the whole U-Haul, like, you know, that whole scene of obsessiveness, right? Like it took, I mean obviously it was a bit obsessive because you asked somebody to buy property with you, but it was in a, in a different sort of safe way to be obsessive, if you will.

Kayla: 4:34

Yeah, it was, and I mean a large part of our hesitancy was that we both felt this very immediate connection with one another that was undeniable. But she first of all thought I was straight. I also thought I was straight. And so I just thought, okay, this person is gonna be my best friend forever. And you know. Both of us felt that where there was like this real strong basis of friendship. So that was also why we didn't wanna act on it physically.'cause we didn't wanna mess that up. That felt too important.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 5:04

Right. Yeah, that's, that's tricky, right? When you're falling in love with somebody that you really, really like as a friend and you're like, man, I don't wanna mess that up.'cause I made that mistake once because she, again, we like felt instantly friendship and love, like deep. It was crazy. We were, we were both in the creative industry, so we would, while we were on like office hours at home, we would just FaceTime the whole time actually with Skype. So we would Skype the whole time and we would just like keep talking. I mean like hours. At a time and yes. And nothing ever ended up happening where we,'cause she was married at the time I was married at the time, we were both married to men at the time, but she was always bi and I was pretending to be bi even though I was very much a lesbian and my person that I was married to knew all these things and stuff like that. So. I just remember going, oh my God, I'm falling so in love with this girl. And I ended up telling her, and it was great for a while. And then it was like, she was like, I can never come out to my family. I, you know, I don't want to do this to my husband. Anyway, now she's divorced, she ended up having some kids and I don't know what's going on because I haven't really gotten to talk to her for a while. But it was hard, right? Because you have, when you have a really good friend like that, that you can be like soul bearing, you don't wanna mess it up.

Kayla: 6:26

And I think that's true gay or straight.'cause it's like I've had that, that experience as well with hetero relationships. You know, where it's like just even just more of like a drunken hookup with a friend or something where I'm like, oh, it's fine. We kind of have a crush on each other, but. It makes it weird, you know? And, and at this point, like I said, we were both in our thirties, so we had more life experience to know and learn from those drunken mistakes in our twenties and didn't wanna make those mistakes again. Like we just felt like this is too important to potentially just have like a fun hookup moment. So we waited.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 7:02

awesome. So as I said before we started recording, I listened to your episode today and one of the things you guys said in your episode, in the episode you guys is, um. But lesbian versus queer, or I mean lesbian versus bi. And one of the things you guys said was that you felt after five years of marriage you could do a podcast together. But I'm sure it wasn't that easy to decide what, like how did the conversation start?'cause you had a podcast previous to this, just to your own right.

Kayla: 7:28

Yeah, I did. I mean, I think like many creators in COVID, I was like, oh, how hard could a podcast be? So, and everyone was just like, oh, you just need a Zoom account and you could talk to people and record it. So, and I love podcasting as a medium, just as a user. So I was really excited about doing it on my own back then. That was in 2020 and I had it for about a year. It was. Fun. It was just, it felt like a very COVID thing, but there was something about it that just didn't stick. And I knew that when I stopped doing it, I was gonna have a podcast again, but I didn't want to do it until I felt that 100% yes about it. And her and I had actually talked about doing it for a while. We bought the equipment for it actually last year, and we were full. We came up with the name, we were like ready to go last year. And then life just got really crazy with IVF and fertility stuff and family stuff, and we just both kind of felt like this isn't the right time. And I'm so glad in hindsight that we listened to that and didn't do it at that time. So it was a conversation, you know, like I said, Alex has a very different job than me and so. You know, I wanted to make sure that she felt comfortable doing, she posts usually on Instagram like four times a year. You know, she's not an online, online person at all, where it's just like not of interest to her. It's just not how she. Expresses herself and moves through the world, so I wanted to make sure that she felt really comfortable with it. Luckily, we already had experience working together because the land that we bought in Nicaragua, we did end up buying it. Spoiler alert, we bought the land in Nicaragua and we built a retreat center. So we've been running that business together for five years now, so we have experience working together. We knew we could do that. And yeah, decided to take the plunge on the podcast this year instead.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 9:19

That is so of like so cool that you got the property and it started working. You went from that and now you're doing the podcast together. But I feel like I'm getting ready to skip over something if I don't say that. The name of your podcast is Wives Not Sisters. I don't wanna leave that out because I did get to say that before. So let's go back to the property then, and. So you got the property. How many acres is it now?

Kayla: 9:44

Yeah, so the initial property that we got was two acres, and then we bought another two acres that's a little bit further inland because that one is right on the water. So we got one a little further inland for farming just because the soil is better and the, the water isn't salty and everything. But yeah, we actually, we bought that initial property before we had even kissed. You know, like we fully did it. And I thought about it, I went through this whole, you know, when you're imagining your life kind of in fast motion before I asked her.'cause I'm like, I can be kind of impulsive. I know this is a little crazy to ask someone. I don't even know if she wants to buy land with me. So I was like, okay Kayla, you need to think about this. And I fully went through my life. And was thinking, okay, what if I get married to, you know, our, I was hoping to get married to someone at some point, and we're both gonna build our houses on this land. Two acres is, is plenty big for two people, but still it's like we're gonna be living right next to each other, potentially forever. You've known this person for three weeks. And then I was like, what if my husband. Think it's weird that I want to live this close to want her in my life in this capacity. And I was like, I'll divorce him. Like I already divorced my imaginary husband. Okay. I'm,

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 10:58

That's so funny. Oh my gosh. Wow. I wish, I wish that I could have been like a fly on the wall, like in your head when you were like thinking these things because I'm super impulsive like that. What's your sign, by the way?

Kayla: 11:12

I'm a Torres

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 11:13

Your choice. Okay. That's

Kayla: 11:15

Yeah.

Quincy: 11:16

so funny. I'm a double I don't know what the other one is. So impulsivity is our bag, our jam. Literally like, oh yeah, totally. We'll do that. We'll do this. Yeah, that is really, really great. So when you decided to build you guys, now were in a relationship right? When you started to build.

Kayla: 11:34

yeah. So we, we bought the land, we signed on the papers to buy the land the same morning that she was leaving the country to go back to work again. So signed the papers, had this whole experience of like, I think we're in love, but we still had not even verbally said it at this point. The kind of only way we can describe it is like it felt like. Souls got married before our bodies or minds or anything had caught up. So we had this like really mystical, magical last night together that was just, it's hard to really put it into words, but nothing happened on a physical or even verbal level. And, um, she went back to the States and about a week after being back finally I was like. I like you. You know, like we just need to say, I hate keeping this bottled in. And so she's like, well, you should really come here. She was living in San Francisco at the time. She's like, you should come here and like, let's see what this is. And I was still really nervous at that time because. Like I said, I was like, what does this mean? Am I gay? And I just didn't know the whole time. I had had experiences with women before. I had had feelings for women before, but in my mind I was like, nah, all girls, like, girl, I didn't, I never thought it was something I had to come out about. No one ever questioned it. I had even, you know, casually dated a girl before. None of my friends at the time asked me any questions. So I, I think as a byproduct, never asked myself any questions, which is really great. Like, I, I'm not.

Quincy: 13:00

actually.

Kayla: 13:01

Right. It was, I mean, amazing response, but I, I just never considered it. And she is, I always joke, the gayest person I know, like she is emanating gayness, so I kind of felt like I wasn't gay enough for her, you know? And she was just gonna see me as, oh, this girl who sometimes likes girls, but has only ever been in long-term relationships with men. I didn't really think she would take me seriously. So there was just a lot of that happening and ended up over two weeks deciding to go to San Francisco and pretty much as soon, and I was so nervous and I kept saying, I was like, what if it's weird? Like, what if we think it's this thing, but it's not? And then we kissed and we're like, oh, this is, and she's like, no, that's, that's not possible. You don't feel this without that connection also being there. But again, I was so nervous about ruining the friend, just ruining anything, and we've already bought this land together at this point. I mean, this is all, I would not recommend this to people. It obviously worked out for us, but it was. Not, you know, it was a little crazy. And so our first kiss was really bad because I was so awkward. I was just like rigid and like I'm so scared. And then as soon as I kind of relaxed, which, because it also happened in public at the airport, so it was just like a lot all at once. And then once we got back to her house and I relaxed, I was like, wait, yeah. I love you. Okay, cool. We're on the same page.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 14:28

Wow. So how long did you stay with her before you like retreated back to nicaragua again.

Kayla: 14:33

Yeah, so I stayed for two weeks and then I actually went to Asia because I was teaching retreats in Asia, and then I came back for her birthday, which is in March. This is now March, 2020, so we all know what's about to happen. ca we didn't know that the time, but I came back for her birthday and. She was actually planning before she had met me to quit her job and do this sabbatical surfing in Asia in the same places where I was already teaching retreats. So she had already had these sites booked exactly All this stuff before she met me. And this was one of the things we had initially bonded over when we met as friends. I was like, oh, cool. Like, yeah, I'll show you around. I've been living in this place in the Philippines forever, and I, I know Bali like the back of my hand and all over Indo, it's gonna be so fun. So I came back for her birthday and we had a flight out together to go back to Asia and then COVID happened and she is like, this is actually the worst time to quit my job and take a sabbatical. So she didn't quit, stayed and we moved to San Diego.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 15:34

Oh my gosh. Wow. I mean like how heartbroken were you guys that you couldn't sort of have this sort of pre honeymooning type thing, right? Where you fell in love, you buy this property and suddenly you're like stuck in the same

Kayla: 15:48

Yeah, I think, I think she was a lot more heartbroken than I was because she's been climbing the corporate ladder since she's been literally 18 years old. She's never taken more than two weeks off, so this sabbatical was like a huge deal for her, whereas I had been nomadic all, all of my adult life. So I was, in some ways, like a lot of people, I think at the start of COVID, you're like, oh, I, I get to rest. This is kind of nice. I'm usually nonstop traveling. So I didn't mind it in the beginning, but she was super bummed. I felt really bad for her because she was losing this opportunity that she still has yet to be able to take. So.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 16:29

No, you guys have never done it since.

Kayla: 16:31

I mean, we travel all the time now that, so this is really funny, is one of her things that she had said to her job. She's like, okay, I won't quit, but I wanna be able to work remotely. And this is right before COVID hit. So that used to be a. A huge deal. It's not a thing now it is a thing, but pre COVID, you know, it wasn't as typical for someone to be able to ask to work remotely at that level. And they agreed to it and she was like, yes, okay. If I could work remotely, I could still travel. And then COVID happened, the whole company went remote. She was like, I didn't even get a real perk, like I would've got this anyways. So we travel all the time. We spend probably half the year in Nicaragua. At our place. You know, we, we've gone all over. We're actually leaving next week to go on a trip. So we still travel all the time, but she still hasn't been able to take those, you know, like a full sabbatical from work.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 17:23

right. So she's always working on the road basically.

Kayla: 17:26

Not always. Sometimes she takes, you know, up to two weeks off. But if we're, when we're in Nicaragua, for instance, for half the year, yeah, she's still working. It's like our regular life there.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 17:37

So let's go to the infertility stuff, because you mentioned that, and it also brings up like, will she be able to take a sabbatical when you guys get pregnant? Are you pregnant right now? Did you get pregnant?

Kayla: 17:47

No, no, I am not able to get pregnant. So she has amazing benefits at her company, and so she will be able to take a, a parental leave. They have parental leave for regardless if you carry or not, once. I, you know, once we have a baby, so we're actually doing surrogacy, so we're in that process right now. Thank you. Yeah, it's been a journey. Three years of trying,

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 18:17

Wow of trying to find a surrogate or trying to get a surrogate

Kayla: 18:20

trying to get pregnant. So yeah, three years of fertility treatments and then, um, got the infertility diagnosis in. February or March something, some one of those and have been pursuing surrogacy since then. So it's been, you know. We have a surrogate, but it's still, there's a long, you know, a huge legal process. A huge medical process. Luckily because I had already done IVF, we have frozen embryos already, so that part is already done. And that's one of the reasons we chose surrogacy over something like adoption, because it was like, oh, we already have this huge component done and you know, we see those embryo like our children and we, we want. Them to come to full life. So, um, so yeah, that's what we're doing.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 19:13

I was a surrogate

Kayla: 19:15

Oh, really?

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 19:16

years ago. Yes, and I mean, years ago, this isn't like in the early, early days when Surrogacy came to California, I went to the Center for Surrogate Parenting. I have a little surrogate human that is 30. I think he just turned 30 or 31, or he'll be 31 in in December, actually. So this is a very long time ago now, but it was a phenomenal experience. If you guys ever wanna talk to me off camera or whatever, pick my brain about the psychology of being a surrogate, I'm more than happy to talk to you about it because it's especially this many years post being a surrogate. I was on different TV shows and interviewed on, you know, NPR and all these different things because. It was such a unique position back then.

Kayla: 20:01

Was it.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 20:03

no, actually they were straight. Yeah. She had had, um, aplastic anemia and she couldn't carry anymore because obviously it's a very serious blood cancer and, um. They were just, they were so charming. I looked like her sister. And we basically became like best friends during this whole thing for a few years after. And then they kind of, you know, went on their merry way, which they should, you know, but it was, it was a surreal experience. So I hope you guys have this amazing experience with your surrogate, and I hope she has the most amazing experience too, because it's life changing for everybody, you know,

Kayla: 20:39

Yeah. Yeah. Our surrogate is actually, she's been a surrogate before, so that was actually really comforting for us because the first person who we matched with ended up being kind of a negative experience and. It sort of had broke that trust, which was already very, it's a scary thing, you know? And so there, it's been really comforting knowing that this person has done it before and knows the ropes and knows what she's doing and yeah, she is really great.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 21:10

Oh, that's so great. Congratulations. So let's move on into a couple other things. Um, so when we, when I brought in the intro, we talked about survivorship and you. Mentioned also, and I looked it up to make sure that I wasn't misquoting you, that this month is domestic survivor's month and that the third is actually domestic survivor's day. Do you wanna talk about that with us and tell us about that transformation and how meeting Alex, what sort of things your body felt as you were coming from that for, I don't know how long yet, because I haven't dug that deep, but just kind of walk us through that a little bit.

Kayla: 21:50

Yeah. Yeah. So I am actually, what I was working on right before we got on this call was I've, I've written a memoir that's actually all about this, that talks about being in that abusive relationship and then also the aftermath. And a lot of it is a very embodied experience like you're talking about, because the biggest thing that I experienced from it. You know, beyond the physical trauma and everything, it's the mental, emotional repair has taken so much longer, specifically around self-trust. Because in order to kind of not only get and stay in those situations, oftentimes it's like that trust has to erode over time. That voice that's telling you this isn't good and you're constantly shoving it down and silencing it. Yeah, so that was, that was the hardest part for me in that recovery. So that happened when I was 24. I'm 37 now, so it's been a while. And it wasn't a relationship with a man. It lasted for about a year and a half, almost two years. And like I said, it was physically, mentally, emotionally abusive. I was very aware of it at the time, very aware that it was. S wrong and all of those things, but I also, you know, it was, it was multiple things happening where it's partially being too afraid to leave. We lived just down the street from one another. Partially like a physical threat to my safety. And also just you start to feel, or at least I just start to feel this kind of like dependency on this person. Like I don't know how I'm gonna survive without them. Um, there was a big mental emotional threat as well, and. Getting out of that. It was really just trying to learn how to trust myself again. That was one of the scariest things actually, which I realized very soon after, because what happened was on the night of my 24th birthday, it ended very explosively. And I ended up in the hospital. He was arrested and we ended up having a nine month court case after the state of California was pressing charges against him, and I was subpoenaed as the main witness, you know, as the victim of the crime. He ended up. Being found not guilty of everything. So that was like the second trauma that happened and there's obviously like all of the social component of people not believing you or you know, the social dynamics that happen in those situations. So that was really challenging. But what I realized right away that was really scary was like, whoa, I don't trust myself. Like I don't even know if I should. What to eat for breakfast. Like I don't trust any choice that I make, and that was scarier than anything because you cannot escape yourself. You have to be in yourself all the time, and feeling afraid of yourself trapped in yourself was such a scary, scary thing. To get through. So that took a long time for me. And it was honestly, I mean, in a time where mental health wasn't really talked about the same way that it is now. I was, you know, of course diagnosed with PTSD and anxiety and depression, and I ended up, I, my doctor was a naturopath, so I did, all of the treatments that I did were naturopathic and they were helpful and everything, but it wasn't. Therapy still, you know, and that wasn't as much talked about or encouraged at the time. I had court ordered therapy for just a very short period of time, and it was also obviously way before virtual therapy was available and I was traveling a lot. That was a big part of what I felt like was my healing process was I ended up starting a nonprofit and. Totally in a different sector, but I had already spent a lot of time living in Asia and Africa before that had happened. So I moved back to Kenya, started a nonprofit. I worked in solar projects and off the grade communities around Asia and Africa for the next almost 10 years. Pretty much up until the point I met Alex and was sort of trying to turn my pain into purpose, like you had mentioned in the intro. And through that process I kind of realized. Actually like it's okay for pain to just be pain and like it doesn't have to be purposeful. That was like a big takeaway that I had from it where a lot of it was trying to kind of run for myself and that cliche of wherever you go there you are kept finding me. But it was, you know, I had other relationships and there were some that were okay. There were some that were bad again, and it was just this trial and error of trying to ultimately repair that trust in myself. And that was something that I had repaired before meeting Alex, which I don't think I really realized until I did meet her. And it was really tested because like I said, I thought I was straight. So everything I thought I knew about myself was shattered once again, not in a bad way, but just. I very confronting and whatever that voice is, that feeling, you know, however it is that you get those messages of truth in you. I felt that. I, I heard that and it was that this is your person. Like I, I knew I was going to marry her before we had even kissed, and it was like, what? I didn't think I was gonna marry a woman. This is, that doesn't make any sense. But instead of trying to kind of make sense of it and be in my mind about it, I just. Followed that feeling and I'm obviously very happy that I did that. Also came with some, you know, when you're fully following the heart and your brain has not caught up yet, it still has to catch up eventually. So it was like, you know, I had to kind of go through my whole coming out process. Through the next year and a half as my brain is trying to catch up with, I don't care what kind of body this person's in, I just, I love them. I love her. That's all that matters to me. I don't care about the logistics of it. So, so yeah, it was, it was, it was a process for sure.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 27:46

Yeah, because I can imagine you, like the best thing is I can get on a plane and go someplace that I already know, and I'm far, far away from this abusive person. But when you take yourself with you that, like you said, is equally scary, you are like, well, I'm physically safe. Right? You still have your emotions and things like that. So when you would go to sleep at night, is that when it would stir up in you? Were you having nightmares? Did you have insomnia? What kinds of physical manifestations were happening if you were healing?

Kayla: 28:15

Yeah, I didn't have insomnia. I had really bad night terror for a long time. I also, you know, I already had a history with addiction and even just from the physical injuries that I had from the hospital, went home with a lot of painkillers from the physical injuries. So I was leaning into substances to try to avoid feeling and thinking. And I did that for a while. Um. I stopped drinking. It's been almost seven years now, so it's been a long time. Again, that happened. It was actually the year before I met Alex, so the year before I met Alex in 2019, I kind of call that my dark night of the soul year, where it was just like this big upheaval of everything kind of coming to the surface, and that's when I had a lot of sort of like deep spiritual work, drank Ayahuasca for the first time, did this. Long water fast, you know, I was like doing these like extreme things and um, you know, in turn of course learned a lot about myself, healed a lot of things that I had been avoiding, numbing, running from, and yeah. Before that. The, the kind of physical experience that I had was, I didn't have night terrors for like five years. It was probably the first year or so, and then even now in writing my book, I don't get night terrors, but whenever I'm writing about it, I have dreams about it again, even though this feels fully processed and healed, but it's still, obviously, it's in the subconscious, it's in the body. So, it showed up a lot in, in my relationships, in attachment style. And like you said, it's like when you're trapped with yourself, there's this feeling of like. You're kind of physically safe, but I didn't even feel, I felt physically safe from him, but I felt like I got myself in this situation. You know, my own choices kept me in this situation. I cannot be trusted to make choices of who to surround myself with, of. I, I felt so disconnected from instinct and intuition of that, like, is this dangerous right now? Should I walk down this alleyway? I didn't know So turned off for so long that I felt also not totally, I didn't feel safe at all really, even if I was received from him.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 30:32

Wow, that is horrific. And I know people are gonna wanna know, how did he get off of all these charges? I.

Kayla: 30:41

I mean, they don't, you know, when they read a verdict, they don't explain why. But I guess the way that the law works is, is uh, it's very based in technicalities. So the, the kind of speculation that the DA had and everything is that at the preliminary trial, which is when they were deciding what his actual counts would be. Um, that judge had actually upped it from what the police had initially charged him with, and the counts are based on the extent of the person's injuries. And mine were kind of like in this, in-between place of where the police had said, and then also what this new judge had said. So the da kind of thinks maybe he got off because on this technicality of like, were her injuries equivalent to this crime? No. That, that's speculate. We don't know. We don't know for sure. There were multiple witnesses who all had the same testimony as me, you know, like, it, it doesn't make any sense. But yeah, the, the court system and that whole process in some ways. I mean, I don't, I don't know which one was worse of being in the relationship itself, but it was really, really hard. Really hard. And that was, you know, kind of. Things that I felt like I had sort of healed from in some ways in the nine months leading up to the actual trial. The trial itself ended up being two weeks, but the whole legal process was nine months and about six of those months I was out of the country and I was doing the nonprofit work and was really able to get away from it and felt so much better and then came back and had to sit in that trial for two weeks. And I kept doing it, not only because I was subpoenaed and I had to, but also because. I was like, it's all gonna be worth it. You know, like, everyone's gonna find out the truth. I know, you know, I know the truth. This is what happened. It is unequivocal like this is, this is a no brainer. So then when he also got off, it was just this re-traumatization of everything and over again.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 32:48

Oh my God, I'm so, so sorry. I, I mean, there's so many things we could say and talk about, and I'm sure you've talked about it ad nauseum with so many different people and things like that. But I support you no matter what because just that one photo that you posted, that one where you were in the hospital, oh my gosh, because when you're talking like that, I'm thinking of that photo and I'm thinking of, you know, just how people don't support women, period. In these situations, there should be no gray, it should be no gray, it's black or white. You were injured, you were in the hospital. You are guilty. Like that's the way I see it personally. So, um, anyway, we have so many other amazing things to talk about too, and I don't wanna drag you through pain like that. So

Kayla: 33:33

No.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 33:33

wanna go onto something else? I don't wanna discredit you or anything like that. Do you, do you wanna talk more about it?'cause if you do, if there's other things you wanna say about it, especially because like I said, you mentioned that it's domestic violence awareness messages that you wanna say to somebody else.

Kayla: 33:49

Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm open to continue talking about it. It's, it's definitely okay for me. Actually Alex and I just recorded a podcast episode yesterday and one of our kind of. Podcast topics that we do, we call them lore episodes, where we focus on a specific person in the queer community and talk about their significance. And you know, they could be influencers, celebrities, whatever. And yesterday we talked about Sedona Prince. I don't know if you're familiar with her, but she is a college basketball player and she has a lot of history of domestic violence charges as her being the perpetrator. So. We talked about that and are going to be releasing that in this month as well for domestic violence awareness month. And one of the things at the end that Alex said that I just will reiterate here,'cause I think it was a really good point, is, you know, it's like you hear so many things towards people who are in those situations and there's always these words of encouragement. Like you can do it, and all of that is true. Like you can get out and you're loved and you're supported and all of those things are true. But I think. One thing that's really important is also to focus on the people around them, their support system, because I think a lot of the time they don't know how to handle it, which makes sense. You know? How do you know how to handle these kinds of experiences if you haven't experienced them yourself? And a really common thing that happens is, this didn't happen to me because I didn't tell anybody, but this happened to Alex when she did tell people. And naturally your friends, your family, whoever you tell is gonna be like, well leave them, you know, they suck, of course, leave them. And that makes sense. But the psychology of staying in those relationships is very complex. And it's usually not black and white of like, oh, I'm just gonna leave then. Okay, well since you said it, sure I'll leave. And what happens is a lot of the times, people's support system. Can start to get frustrated impatient fed up. You know, they don't understand how you can stay in this situation. And they're, they're feeling all those things because they love you and they want to protect you, and they want you to be safe. But sometimes that can end up isolating a victim even more, because now they no longer feel safe talking to that person. Or even worse, you know, sometimes that person is like, look, I, I don't wanna talk to you about it anymore. I can't keep doing this. And the more isolated that person gets, the less likely it is. That they will leave. So what I'll just say to anybody listening who maybe knows somebody who's going through that is, as hard as it is for you to witness that, try to imagine how hard it is for them to be in it and just stay, like, be there for them. That is the best thing you can do. That doesn't mean you're supporting the relationship. That doesn't mean you're condoning this behavior, but just telling them like, I will be here no matter what. I'm, I'm here. That is so, so, so important.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 36:41

Oh, that's such a good message.'cause I never really thought about it like that because you're right, we do sit from the sidelines and say, well, why can't you just leave? You know, I was in a, an emotionally abusive relationship with a woman who was also using drugs, and it was shortly after my son had passed away from using drugs and I like looked at her and I was like, why are you hiding this from me when one of the things I said when we got together was, I can't be with somebody that's using drugs like this. And you're hiding it from me, you know? It was Oxycontin and cocaine and other things like this, and it was so. Scary. And when I remember trying to get away from it and I asked my parents to come to my house and they did not condone my lesbian lifestyle. They still don't, but they were being as supportive as they could. And I said, I need you to help me make up a lie to get out of town.'cause I was living in San Diego and I wanna move to la And my dad was like, no, we're not gonna help you. You got yourself into this because I was thinking to myself. You know, what if she freaks out on me, what if she's high and she like, hurts me or something, you know? So I still ended up doing, an Irish goodbye or whatever. But I wanted someone to support me and I knew that my parents should be there to do that, and they didn't. And my friends that wanted to support me knew her too. And they were friends with her and I think they. Sort of thought that both of us were unstable and whatever. So it was, it was hard. So thank you for saying that because it is, you're looking for somebody to be like, okay, I'll help you with this, you know, and not judge you at all.

Kayla: 38:11

And I believe you.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 38:13

Yes, I believe you. It's absolutely true, and you can love that person that you're trying to leave. And that should be accepted too, that I'm leaving somebody that I loved and I fell in love with them for the A reason. And that's what I tell people. About divorce. You know, I fell in love with that person for a reason, regardless of why we got divorced. I did love that person at some time, and I have that level of respect for them because at a certain point we were both sane. Now do we become insane after or during? Probably, uh, but I still want you to, you know, not talk badly about them and, you know, things like that. Like it's

Kayla: 38:50

Yeah.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 38:50

that I chose willingly to go into relationship with.

Kayla: 38:54

Exactly. And it happens, like you said, I think a lot of people, even if you're like, I, I don't know anyone in an abusive relationship, but you probably have a friend who's at least been in a shitty relationship, or sorry, I don't know if I can cuss, but in a bad relationship. Okay.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 39:08

yeah.

Kayla: 39:09

You know, and, and dating someone that you're like, oh, that person sucks. You know, they're not treating you right. You deserve better in some way. And it's that same thing of I, you can have your own boundaries of like, look. I can't, you can't keep taking up all the space talking about this all the time and not doing anything about it. And also, when you are ready to do something, I'm here and ready for you. Because even in just unhealthy relationships, the further isolated that person gets with that unhealthy person, the harder it becomes to leave. And that's ultimately the goal. So it's like not shunning them for not doing it the way that you want it to and just trying to be patient, which is really, really hard.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 39:47

Yeah, patience is definitely key'cause you have to do it. When you know you can, and unfortunately for you it meant hospital stay. I don't know how many times you'd been in the hospital before, but was your final straw, right? You were just done so because of yoga how did yoga shift from being about shapes to being like your lifeline? How did you, did you dive into it even more? Or like when did yoga come into it?'cause I mean, your videos and your. Technique, everything. And I'm not a yoga person. I was a gymnast and a dancer and things like that. So I appreciate fine structure and form and perfection in those sorts of things. But how did it like literally become everything for you?

Kayla: 40:30

Yeah, so my mom is also a yoga teacher, actually. So she started teaching me when I was super young, when I was 12, and it was still, it was very fun. It was casual, you know, I didn't grow up in this zen household, but was perfectly yogic by any means, and it was very physically focused for me at that time. I was. Also a gymnast. I was flexible and strong and it was just like a fun way to bond with my mom. And then continued doing it in high school, a little bit here and there in college, and it really shifted for me after I got out of the abusive relationship and went back to Africa the first time, so I was in Kenya and Uganda and in Uganda. So this is about six months after that experience in the hospital with the guy. I was in Uganda, I got bit by a tick and ended up getting African tick bite fever, which is like the African version of Lyme. And I got super, super sick. And I was in a pretty remote place and they didn't know what it was, and their solution was to cut the bite out of my arm. So they did this like surgery on my arm in quote surgery and, um, didn't essentially like clean it well, or do they didn't. Do it right. And so I just had this hole through my arm. It looks like a bullet hole in my arm, and they just put a bandaid on it after they're like, okay, you can go home now. And I didn't know. And ended up the infection, then got my bloodstream, I went septic. I almost died, got super sick and this is six months after, that happened with my expert. That felt like another near death experience where you leave your body and you're kind of like having all of these realizations about life. So when I was in the ambulance on the way from the small village I was in to the main city to go to a better hospital. That was when I kind of say like, I feel like I discovered my breath. Like that was the thing keeping me alive, obviously, but had discovered it in this deeper way. You know, they always talked about this in yoga. At this point. I've been doing yoga for over 10 years, but never felt it. Spiritually, it was always a very physical practice for me. And after that experience and obviously surviving that, um, it kind of changed my relationship with breath and then therefore the movement around it and meditation and everything. So that was when it really shifted for me. And then it was about two years later that I did my first teacher training and became a teacher.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 42:54

Wow. Did you do it here in the States or did you do it like you mentioned Bali and other

Kayla: 42:59

Yeah, I did my first one in Encinitas and then I have, since I've done over a thousand hours of training, the rest of my training has ended up being in India.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 43:08

Oh wow. Wow. So what was India like after going to Africa? Was it like a piece of cake?

Kayla: 43:15

Uh, they're so different. I think, I mean, India's first of all huge, and I've traveled quite a bit of India, but there still are so many places I haven't been. And I don't know, I mean, I feel like. In my experience, India's a lot more chaotic than African countries that I've been to just with the sheer volume of people. Um, and it's, I mean, it's just so different. It's so hard to compare them. Where I was doing trainings, you know, they were very kind of like epicenters for yoga and. Especially Dhar SHA is very, very peaceful. So that was like a really peaceful, nice place, but traveling around India just as a tourist. And then I, I've also ended up doing some solar projects there with my nonprofit. Um, yeah, a lot more chaotic than African countries I've been to, I would say.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 44:04

Wow,

Kayla: 44:06

But I love it. I love India so much.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 44:08

So you guys have this place in Nicaragua, but do you think about moving back to places like India or the northern part of Africa or middle

Kayla: 44:15

Yeah, so in Africa, I lived only in Kenya, and then I've done projects. All over, mostly Eastern and kind of southern Africa like Malawi, Zambia, Uganda, like I said, Tanzania, Ethiopia, but only ever lived in Kenya and um, never lived in India. I went quite a few times and traveled there extensively. I lived in the Philippines before and then I also lived in Indonesia and. One of the main reasons that we're closer to this side of the world is because of Alex's job. So she still is on American time zones. Nicaragua is the same as Central Coast Time, so that makes it super easy. And we have a dog, so we travel with our dog. She comes with us to Nicaragua and everything, but if we're going farther than that, it's just too much for her. So, yeah.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 45:04

Yeah. Is she small enough to ride in the cabin?

Kayla: 45:08

She is 50 pounds, but she's a service dog. Yeah. We got her trained as a service dog so she can ride in the cabin.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 45:14

that's great. But yeah, I can imagine staying underneath the thingy gets a little bit tight after a while.

Kayla: 45:20

Yeah. Yeah.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 45:22

What's her name?

Kayla: 45:24

Her name is Sandia, which means watermelon in Spanish.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 45:27

that's so cute. I did not know that was watermelon in Spanish.

Kayla: 45:31

Yeah. She is from Mexico. Walking by me right now. She heard her name?

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 45:38

tall. How cute. I love that. So do you still feel like you're rebuilding trust with your body? Or do you feel like you've gotten to the point where. At this point. I know there's this heaviness that is going to be with me until it's not right. Um, because it's grief. Right? You're still grieving that person you were before. You're grieving the person you were after you went through that court system, then you're grieving.'cause I'm sure it took a lot out of you when you almost died. There's all these grief processes, right? So once you get through that, do you feel like you will or do you feel.

Kayla: 46:14

Yeah, I think, I think it shows up differently. You know, it's like I still, the biggest thing for me that kind of blocks my trust is anxiety when that comes up. And usually for me, anxiety is very situational, you know? So it could be something like. I've had multiple miscarriages in my fertility process and anything kind of like surrounding death, I get my response is less depression and it's more anxiety of like being hypervigilant and always feeling like I'm gonna die, Alex is gonna die. You know, someone's gonna die. So when I'm in that kind of like heightened state. Then that overrides truth, you know, like that feeling in your body that's telling you, you're fine, you're safe'cause I'm in this heightened state. So that's, you know, that's a more extreme example. But on a day-to-day basis, if I'm wondering if I'm, if I start feeling myself even kind of getting a little bit more anxious and having those intrusive thoughts or hypervigilance, I can drop in and be like, what is true right now? You know, you can really feel. Am I actually in danger or am I just a little bit nervous about turbulence on my flight or you know, these things that are happening? So most of the time, yeah, I can still access that and I feel like I trust myself as far as. You know, choosing the right partner, choosing the right friends, being in healthy relationships, trusting my own boundaries, you know, these important things. Yes. But I'm, you know, it's not perfect. There's still times where I can spin out or, you know, doubt myself or question myself, but it is, you know, totally, totally different and so much better than it was all those years ago.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 47:51

That must be such a relief to be able to step back into that control when you get out of control. So is it a meditative state that you get into, or is it remembering what your body feels like, during a yoga practice? Like what exactly does that look like for you?

Kayla: 48:08

Yeah, so I do, have a very strong meditation practice. I meditate every day, every night. But there's times that can almost be double as like a prayer it is just something when I was trying to get pregnant or when I was pregnant, it'd be times that I would try to connect to the spirit of the baby, you know? So it's like this al spiritual practice for me that looks. Different all the time. But if I'm just kind of going through my day and I notice that I'm starting to feel heightened and that kind of fight or flight is coming on, you can feel that there's this physical response that happens. You know, the heart. You're also feeling like you can't take a deep breath. So I'm not just gonna like stop, drop and get into Lotus Perfect position and, and meditate. But it's just this, like maybe I close my eyes maybe. I'm driving and I can't close my eyes, but it's just like a dropping in to myself. It usually is just taking one full deep breath. Especially the long exhale like that will do wonders for you to just be like. Okay, what's, what's actually real right now? And it can be a 32nd kind of check-in in my day when I notice things are getting too, you know, upper energy heightened up here. Um, and then other times it is longer, it's like, okay, this is maybe a question that I've been ruminating on. I'll bring that to my meditation practice and, and really sit with it. And it's a difference of thinking about it. That thinking is the same as ruminating, where you're just looping on it over and over, like I'm not trying to make sense of it. I'm trying to feel into it. So it's like a very felt sense of trying to understand it on that physical level and like feeling what is true.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 49:46

Yeah, that makes me think about. So in yoga and meditation and dropping into someplace and like, I can't meditate. I'm not one of those people that can, I just can't get there. I can't remember the name of one of these people that I listen to, but she talks a lot about Shepa. Her name escapes me. Um, but she says that she was the most horrible meditator forever, this Buddhist monk. And I feel like that I can meditate when I journal. That I'm actually meditating when I'm journaling. Is that a form of meditation,

Kayla: 50:20

yeah, I mean, so this is a thing I think with a lot of these practices, there's people who are very dogmatic about it, very, it has to be this way. I am not one of those people. So I'm just like, if you are tuning into yourself, you're doing great. You know, and the kind of exact definition and word around it. In some ways, to me it doesn't matter as much. It's the feeling that you get from it. I'm also, you know, can be very active and fidgety and have a hard time sitting still. So I'm a huge proponent of moving meditation. That is, that is yoga is a moving meditation, and that's why I think yoga can be such a great. Entry into a still meditation because that Shavasana at the end really, you know, was designed because you physically wear yourself out from the physical practice. So you want to rest after you don't have this pent up energy.'cause you've kind of already moved it through. You've challenged yourself and you've exerted yourself. So now you're ready to rest. So if somebody is like that where they're like, I have a hard time sitting still, I'm like, just tire. Run a few blocks you know, whatever you need to do, tire yourself out. Until you can get to that rest state instead of forcing yourself to rest if you're not there. Or speaking of running, running can be a moving meditation, surfing, you know, there's so many different things that you can do where you have that total connection, you're in that flow state. Obviously riding, you're in that flow state where it's almost like something is coming through you. You're not even moving the pen. You're not thinking of the words, the words are coming through you, in my opinion. Yes, that is meditation. That definitely works.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 51:53

That's great. Good. So I don't have to start feeling guilty that in

Kayla: 51:57

No,

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 51:57

get to that space, I don't have to

Kayla: 51:59

no, like any wellness practice, if you're shaming yourself into doing it, it's not wellness. That's not making you well, right? It's like we don't wanna move from this place of guilt or shame to do something.'cause otherwise it's not gonna be as beneficial. Versus like, oh, I'm gonna naturally follow who I am, what I like, my interests, and that flow and kind of curate your own design.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 52:23

I agree because some days I go for days where I don't journal, but I walk on the days that I don't journal, and that's when I get my thoughts out and think about, and I love when I. Don't even take my phone with me.'cause I'm like, it doesn't matter who's on fire right now. I just need to get outta the house without any electronics near my body. Right? I don't want your beds in because I used to do sort of my own self-healing, was just listening to something constantly, and I'm not a TV person, so it had to be a podcast. Something, somebody talking to me, music playing, and now I'm to the point where I feel so healed that I'm fine with absolute quiet and just my brain. I'm very fine with just hearing what I'm saying and thinking, God, why am I thinking that right now? But when you're thinking your students, how do you help them with trauma? Like is it a trauma informed teaching that you do or do

Kayla: 53:19

No, I'm not trauma informed, so I don't, you know, I will never advertise my classes as such, or like, oh, I've gone through these things, so now I can help you go through these things. I think that's really important. You know, I think it's really common for. Specifically yoga teachers, like you don't see this in as many other kind of exercise or movement classes, but yoga has a spiritual element and a lot of the times people find yoga because they're going through something hard and then they can kind of mistake their yoga teacher as their therapist. And sometimes a yoga teacher also is like, yeah, I am really smart and I, I can be a pseudo therapist. So, you know, even if the intentions are not. Bad. I would just say, you know, be aware of that, whether you're a teacher listening or a student, but it's, that is something that is important. There are people who are trauma-informed teachers, um, but I am not one of them. So

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 54:12

Wow. Oh my gosh. I know you have an appointment right now, so we have to go and I don't want it to end'cause there's so many other things I wanted to talk to you about, but if we could do a part two, that would be

Kayla: 54:22

yeah, that'd be so fun.

cloudRecording_Quincy_Take_1_audio (1) (1): 54:24

Let me just do my outro. Super quick before you go. So Kayla, you've shown us what it looks like to live in your body as home, to live out, out loud, and to teach from the scars without shame. Your story reminds us that survival can lead to sanctuary and that queer love isn't just romance, it's revolution. Thank you for bringing your fire, your breath, and your truth to us today. Thank you

Kayla: 54:47

Oh, thank you. That was so sweet. Thank you so much for having me.