Cocoon After Dark
There’s a certain kind of story we only tell in the dark.
The kind that lingers. The kind we’ve carried in silence. The kind that needs soft lighting, no interruptions, and someone who won’t flinch.
Welcome to Cocoon After Dark—I’mQuincy Tessaverne, and this is a space for truth-telling that’s tender, textured, and unapologetically queer.
Each week, we sit with voices—mostly Black, brown, LGBTQ+—who’ve lived through things that don’t always fit into polite conversation.
We talk identity, pleasure, boundaries, grief, reinvention, and the moments that changed everything.
This isn’t small talk. It’s soul talk.
So take what you need. Leave what you don’t. And listen with your whole body.
Cocoon After Dark
Fun, Fierce, and Fearless: Eboné Bell Gets Real!!
Join us for a profound conversation with Eboné Bell, a pioneering voice in representing queer women and non-binary individuals. From founding Tag Magazine to breaking stereotypes in leadership, Eboné shares her journey of creating spaces of inclusivity and authenticity. Discover her personal stories, the impact of her work, and insights on allyship, belonging, and leading with empathy. Don't miss this engaging and inspiring discussion on the importance of representation and living authentically.
00:00 Introduction to EA Bell
01:34 Holiday Plans and Traditions
04:42 Family Background and Upbringing
08:08 College Experiences and Challenges
12:55 The Power of Authenticity
18:22 Creating Tag Magazine
22:51 Reclaiming Personal Narrative
26:35 Exploring Music and Leadership
27:17 Challenging Leadership Norms
29:57 Empathy and Social Awareness
33:14 Travel Experiences and Cultural Insights
39:31 Misconceptions and Identity
45:10 Evolving Beliefs and Spirituality
53:39 Future Aspirations and Legacy
Find Eboné on Insta:https://www.instagram.com/ebone.bell/
Webiste: https://www.ebonebell.com/
https://linktr.ee/CocoonAfterDark
Good morning everyone. Today I sit here with someone whose leadership has shaped cultural identity and powerfully. EA Bell has spent years creating representation where there was none. Amplifying queer women and non-binary voices building platforms from scratch, and leading with presence rather than performance. EA Bell founded Tag Magazine because she refused to wait for permission to exit. And beyond publishing and advocacy, she has carved out a space through her voice, whether she's on stage delivering a keynote that wakes people up in the gentlest but clearest way or behind a microphone, recording voiceover work that carries truth, nuance, and identity. Her voice isn't just heard, it's felt she's become a storyteller, a disruptor, a mirror, and at times, a megaphone for those who are never meant to be muted. This conversation isn't just about what she's done, it's about who she has to become to do it. The evolution, the courage, the softness and the reclamation beneath the service ebonee. I am really honored you're here. Thank you so much.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Thank you so much for having me and I feel like I'm gonna have you write all my introductions from here on out. That was absolutely amazing. Thank you.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:You are so welcome. Justice needs to be served. People like to either gloss over who they are or talk too much about things that we're actually not gonna talk about. So it's just a way that I really cue people in on where we're going. If your incredibleness
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:I appreciate it.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:I always ask a warmup question, and my warmup question is, what are you doing for the holidays this year?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Ooh, I like this question. So my partner and I are actually hosting Thanksgiving at our house. So we're really excited about it. It's the first time we're hosting. So we'll have family over, friends over, and we're really excited. We already have our list, our menu and I'm super excited about it. we're excited also because we did some things with the house and decorating. So we're excited to show it off. We have our new deck and I'm a Christmas Village nerd. Christmas village down in the living room. I'm excited to show off. So it's gonna be good. It's gonna be a great day of food. Family and friends.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Oh my gosh, that's so great. So where did your recipes come from?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Where did the recipes come from? So I'm absolutely not the cook in the family.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:No,
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:so I feel like you are absolutely asking the wrong person. But my mom is definitely bringing some of her famous side dishes, which have, been passed on generation to generation. Maybe at some point I'll learn so I can continue that.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:what are they?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:She's doing just collard greens, yams stuffing. So she's doing that. My partner, whose name is Jen she's Puerto Rican and she's doing her famous pastels, I believe, I'm hoping I'm saying that we basically call it Puerto Rican lasagna. It has had been the biggest hit ever since she's made it for family and friends. They're always like, please have her make that and bring it. So we're doing, a little bit of soul food meets, Puerto Rico.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Nice. Do you guys have room for one more?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Come on. I know you're on the West Coast, but it's gonna be a long a flight for you. But we are here. We will be here. Just
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Oh,
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:the door.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:that's so fun. Awesome. I used to date a Puerto Rican girl before, and oh my gosh, she was a chef on top of that, so trust me. But she never made that. She made a lot of pork, everything like it was And.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:food is delicious.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:So good. And if we weren't eating it and she wasn't making it, we were going and getting it from some little, like dive place. It was so amazing. Awesome. I'm so excited for you guys. It's always so special to be the host, right? Because when you see everyone like stressing out and freaking out, you're like, oh, I'll just bring the calm and I'll choose the playlist and I'll set the scene for the day. And people remember that.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Yeah. They do. They definitely do. I told my mom, I was like, you've done this for years. And it's our turn and it's special to host and be able to say, just come in and enjoy yourself. Like you said, we have the, we'll take care of the kitchen the layout, the music, the vibe, all of it. So we're excited.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Oh, that's so awesome. You guys have so much fun. We'll have to talk after so you can tell me how it went.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:I, I will let you know.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Okay, so let's start with our questioning. Tell me about the kind of friend that E is.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Ooh, I'm loving these questions. I would say so I'm very much a, I'm very much a Capricorn. And one of the things about us we are very loyal. We are loyal friends when we have friends in our life that you know are true and blue, as they say we hold on to them. And we will always ride for you. For sure. So I would say that's probably the biggest thing is my loyalty towards my friends. If I love you, and I always have your back. And what you'll never get from me also is two different people. How I show up in my house is how I show up outside, hanging out on stage, all of it. I think it's a lot of freedom to just be yourself wherever you are. So I think loyalty, just being myself and having a good time. Like I've always been a jokester so I always love making my friends laugh and just having a good time. So yeah, I think that would be the best way to say how I show up as a friend.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:That's beautiful. That is really beautiful. I think that when we are ourselves and people feel that freshness and the lightness that you are when you're, when you are yourself, they never expect anything different from you. They just want you to be in that suit of reclamation, right? This is who I am. And take it and just love me. Just love me for who I am. That's the best, absolutely the best. So who are your parents who raised Ebe?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Oh specifically Gloria and Arthur one my mom. Yes. My mom is grew up in Gary, Indiana, a hometown of Michael Jackson and the Jackson Five and my dad in Pittsburgh. And they actually met at a wedding in Pittsburgh, and that's how that's how they met. And I grew up, yeah, I grew up in Maryland. They, we got a nice little house, grew up in Maryland, and my parents were really great. They really believed in the power of education. They knew also having a young black daughter that things. May not be always easy for me. So they really instilled a lot of confidence in me, education and just really wanting to see me succeed. So they did a great job of giving me some of the things that they never had because they always wanted me to do better. Everything from, my parents not being able to swim and, at three years old go and learn how to swim. And just breaking those cycles and making sure that I have access to everything. And now I'm in the midst of trying to get my, both of my parents to retire.'Cause it is about that time, but they are definitely their generation of boomers who all they know sometimes is work. And I'm like, it's time. It's time. Enjoy your lives because you deserve it. So yeah, that's a very. Small snippet of who my parents are, but I'm really grateful for the life that they gave me. And I work really hard to make sure that they're proud of the work that they put in.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:I am proud of the work that they've done and we've only just met. Wow, that's amazing. When they. We're encouraging you to go to college. Were you like the first person in your family to go to college or had they gotten a chance to do like even community college or vocational school?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Yeah, so my mom and her brother, and there, there are seven of them. So her younger brother and my mom, they were the first to go to college. So then I was that second generation coming in after them. And my dad did not, but my mom did. But they still both knew how important it was for me to attend college and have that education, have that diploma. So I had more possibilities out in the real world.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:That's so great. I was also the first person in my family to go to college. Even though my parents wanted me to, they didn't really know how to coach or guide me into it. So I think it was just really all I wanted to do was wear the black cap and gown and walk across. I didn't realize how much work it was gonna be to get there. Especially with algebra, which are you had to take right? To pass. I'm a horrible math student, but yeah. Bravo to your parents because they really raised an amazing human,
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Yeah. Can we also talk about, real quick
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Yes.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:required classes
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Oh.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:in, in college? Know I'm going rogue here just a little bit. So I went to University of Maryland College Park. And they the time didn't have advertising as a major. And so they created something where you could create your own major. And at the time I thought, oh, I'm gonna be doing commercials and doing these kind of things, so I gotta do advertising and marketing. So it's really cool. You sit with an advisor, you go through all these classes, and you put together a proposal to, say, okay, these classes are going to help me with advertising in this major. And you go in front of this board of, it must have been like 20 of them. I had no clue until I walked in. And they either say yes, no, or yes, but make these changes the way I try to stay away from math and economics. And of course they said, yes, but you have to take economics. I was like, no. So yeah, I, I get it. Anyway, I just was chuckling to myself as you were talking about algebra.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Yes. Oh my God. I even had to have the dean of the math department sit with me to get me through math, and literally when I walked across the stage, he got out of his seat and came over and hugged me and goes, you did it? And I'm like, barely. But yes, I did it. How is it that you're not even gonna use this, but it's those core requirements, you're right, that they.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:exactly. And that's how I always felt. I'm like, I'm never gonna use this. And I know there's somebody listening that's that's not true. We do need this. But at least for the things that I wanted to do, I knew I was not gonna be using algebra or anything else. But you gotta do what you gotta do.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:And I thought that's what they made chat GPT for. I literally helped my 12-year-old do her algebra homework. I take a picture of the algebra homework, I put it in chat GPT because I don't know how to teach her how to do it. And it spits out everything. And I'll say, can you explain that more? Because I don't know how to explain it to her. Didn't they realize AI was coming and we wouldn't really need to learn algebra?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:is true. That is true. Even though like I am. I am grateful for being the generation that I am now.'Cause I think I'm like how would it be if every assignment, everything I could just plug in and not have to think for myself? which I think is scary to think about, and not to say that we're not gonna have some amazing, intelligent, young people coming up but I know it may not be as many as our generation. So we'll see.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Right.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:But I think it's scary time to have AI and chat GBT. So I'm a, I'm grateful that I'm that generation. I always say I'm the last generation to play outside. Where we still know what a rotary phone is, but also we're very savvy with the technology today. So I'm like that generation there and I'm grateful for it. Sometimes I'm a little jealous of the younger generation where I'm like, dang, if I, we had this or had that or more acceptance, accept as L-G-B-T-Q people. You know what I mean?
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Oh yeah, definitely.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Quincy, I feel like I'm going rogue all around the place, but
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:No, this is how people get to know you. Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. Okay, so let's get back to business then. But I do appreciate everything that you're saying. Do you remember the first time you realized the world would respond to you differently because of who you are, not just what you do?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Ooh. I think I actually know. The moment, but at the time, I don't think I express exactly what I was feeling. But as I got older, I was like, oh, this is it. This is when I start realizing things were a little bit different. remember so my best friend growing up I grew up in Aspen Hill, Maryland. And my best friend growing up, her name was Crystal. She was a little white girl. We were the same age and, we enjoyed each other's company. We played outside all the time. We, we were kids. We never looked at each other differently. We just enjoyed each other's company. Right? That's usually the case with kids in general. and I remember both of us I think our parents went out, both of them households went out. So they had a joint babysitter, so we had the same babysitter. And she was a, a young white woman. remember she started to do or wanted to do our hair. My friend Crystal was like, oh, do our hair and do all this. And she was fine with doing Crystal's hair. And then it came to me and it just wasn't going right. And I felt she was really uncomfortable. And she started to tr it there, treat me different. It wasn't, I wanna make sure that I say she wasn't mean. She didn't say anything wrong. It just was in her being. And I think in that moment, and it's funny, I don't remember a lot of things when I was young, but I remember this. But in that moment, I knew I was different. she couldn't do my hair like all the other girls and, you know what I mean? So I think. I knew something was off and it made me feel bad. But again, at the time when I was young, I don't think I realized exactly what that was. But now I can easily describe what that feeling was. And then I think along the way, as a young black child, you also experienced microaggressions and things like that along the way. But if I had to say the first time, that would be it.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:So how do you use that experience now, like when you're speaking to a group where there aren't as many black kids or young adults or adults, period. In your speaking.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:In full transparency, a lot of times that is my audience depending on what I'm talking about. So if I am'cause I talk about a plethora of things, but when I talk about allyship. And belonging and things like that, they aren't sending me to Howard University to talk about that stuff. A lot of times I'm being sent to people who probably need a little bit more information on how to show up. And those can be when I speak at colleges and campuses, sometimes they are predominantly white institutions, but I also know I'm in the right place as well. I don't care who I'm talking to. One thing that I've always instilled in me is just showing up authentically myself. as young black people, sometimes we have to be chameleons. We have to change the way we talk, how we wear our hair dress, because things are different for us. But as I started to get older, I realized the power of authenticity and instead of me adjusting for other people. It's time for them to adjust to me. So that's exactly how I approach situations. And I pride myself when I'm on stage, when I'm talking to people after my presentations I want them to feel like I'm their friend just hanging out in our living room. That's probably one of the. Biggest compliments I can get from people is when they say, you are just so relatable. And these are people of all different backgrounds, ages, identities, whatever the case might be. Because I believe when you're authentic and you just show up as you, and you are there to just really for me, spread love, kindness, and empathy. I feel like it naturally happens and I feel like I'm in the right space because I'm teaching people that may not understand certain things. I'm teaching folks to not do the things that I experienced when I was younger, and I'll tell them that too. I'll actually say, I don't want anyone in this room. Going through some of the things that I did when I was young, that is why I am here, is to make sure that this world continues to be a better place. And so the way I deal with it is authenticity and being real, no matter who I'm speaking with. If I have the opportunity to teach you to be a better human being so you don't make somebody else feel different or like they don't belong, then I'm doing my job. And it's interesting these questions you're asking'cause it's just making me think wow how have I handled this? How have I done this? I feel like in some weird way, Quincy, this is also like a therapy session as well.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:So how do you feel about that?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:If we keep going, I'm gonna have to pay you for this.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:I'm just coming for dinner. That's all I need. That's all the payment I need.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:fair enough.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Or lunch or brunch, it doesn't matter. I'm just coming over to eat. That's for shirt. I'm happy to be paid in food. Awesome. So tell me about a moment where you didn't just walk through the door, but you had to build it for yourself.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Oh, I absolutely would say creating Tag Magazine, that was absolutely it. There was a moment. For those that don't know I am in the Washington DC area. So I've lived in dc, Maryland, and Virginia now in Maryland. But I did a lot of L-G-B-T-Q events in the city. Was highly involved in our pride here. The list goes on and on, and I remember there was a point where I would pick up our local L-G-B-T-Q which are great. Absolutely love them there. There's no shade to them at all. But all I would see are white gay men. Every single time when I first started TAG Magazine which is for L-G-B-T-Q Women, I remember one of my first speaking engagements to talk like about the magazine. literally picked up one of the magazines I'm talking about our local publication didn't even look at it. And I told somebody in the room when I started, I said, I want you to. through the first 10 pages and count how many men then I want you to go back count how many women it was something like 30 men, three women. And I said, this is why I started TAG Magazine. believe in the power of representation. And I wanted to see more queer women. I wanted to see women of color, trans women. All of it represented better than we are doing or we were doing back then. so instead of begging and asking, Hey, put us in, come on. Sometimes we can't wait for other people to do it. We have to do it ourselves. And I think Tag Magazine is a great example of doing exactly that. Something I knew if. I was missing it or I was longing for it. There were other people out there that were longing for it. And I was right. And I'm grateful that I was right since I left my job to start that. I think it was 11, 12 years ago now that I started the publication. And since then I handed over to another amazing black queer woman. But that's exactly what it looked like to just push my way in and say, Hey, our voice matters to instead of these two publications now only getting all the love of, sponsorship and media, boom, it's tags time too. You gotta make sure that you're also seeing L-G-B-T-Q women here. And I think we did a really good job of that. We started local and then we became national.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:That is so amazing that you were able to even launch it, right? Because you had to have some sort of momentum behind. You had to, people have people that were on the same page that you were on and continually support it, and now then to hand it off, who's the person that you handed it off to?'cause I'm not aware of that.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:She is a black queer woman living in California. Her name is Sandra Morris and she's amazing. She came on. Years ago as a writer and has done so much more than that leading up to me handing it off. And I knew when it was time, for me to go, I knew there was nobody else to take this over but her, like I, I knew it in my gut. And she's done such a fantastic job. She's grown it. The website looks amazing, the newsletter, I say it looks better than when I ran it. And that is a great thing. That's what I was hoping for. And she did exactly that.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:That's so cool.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:to give a shout out to Sandra Morris. She's a beautiful human being and she's doing a lot of great things in our community.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:You are so lucky, right? That the legacy continues and even better, like that's always the goal, right? I hope that this podcast continues to grow and grow, but then I do hope at some point I'll be able to hand it over to somebody that does miracles with it. It's the same thing when you raise a kid that when they're five they start school and someone else teaches'em to read and do all the other things. I didn't do that. I taught you how to wash your face, brush your teeth, have manners, ask to be excused from the table, but someone else does all the other stuff. And that you, they come back at the end of the day and you're like, huh, that's pretty cool, oh, that's so great. I love that. So when has someone tried to define you before you defined yourself, and how did you reclaim that narrative?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:What's what's funny, and for those listening you are more than welcome to visit my TikTok or Instagram. The reason I say this is because this question makes me think about national coming out day. it was oof, maybe three years ago now I decided, I'm like, I'm gonna do a little rap song about national coming out day. And this question literally makes me think of what I what I ra. And don't worry, I'm not gonna do the whole thing,
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:I want you to.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:But again, they can go to my TikTok or Instagram, scroll a year or two down and you'll see national coming out day. But one of the things that I mentioned in the rap is saying that everyone like, just thought I was a tomboy and that's what they labeled me. So I had to get my story back and make sure that I was the one telling this story. And so I think was all part of my coming out process. I think it was really easy. And I think this maybe still happens because maybe parents are in denial, families in denial. So they're like, oh, she's just a tomboy. And of course. Cis women that are straight can be tomboy. And a lot of us are not. We are trying to figure our stuff out, right? So I think that was definitely a narrative that was put on me and I knew at some point at 1819 that I had to get that story back because I believe in living authentically myself, even though I was so young. And I don't even think I realized that's what that meant. I knew that I might lose friends and family for being me and making sure that I had control of my narrative. To me, freedom is everything. And when I say freedom from your mind your body, just being able to be fully who you are is important. And so I would say, yeah, before I even came out, I think that narrative was out there about me and I had to get ahead of it. That is what I said in my wrap. I had to get ahead of that because the only person you cannot lie to is yourself. so yeah, I think that's a great example of what it looks like to take your narrative back and take your story back before somebody else tells it.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Okay. Now that you've teased us, please give us Just a little taste.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Oh my God, I can't believe. All right. Let me see if I can remember this I'm like embarrassed, but also I love it. All right, here we go. I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it now. It's really short. I never liked dresses'cause my parents guessing. I knew I was different. I knew I was destined for something a little brighter, something a little higher. Ooh, it's a rainbow. I knew I liked it. I tried to fight it. All of my friends around me dating guys, I wasn't vibing. I was relying and hiding behind the tomboy label. They supplied me. I had to get ahead of that. I had to get my story back. Be true to yourself.'cause yourself is the only person you can't lie to. Remember that after 20 years of coming out to friends and family, what can I say? I'm known for my work and I'm happy. Just call me an out professional gay. Hey,
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Oh my God, that is so great.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:I just did that.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:I can believe it. Oh my God, that is so cool. Okay. Everyone rushed to her. TikTok rushed her Instagram and do you dance in it too?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:I don't. It's just me rapping to the camera. That's it. But I had a good time with it. I really did.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:That is awesome. So you should professionally record this if you haven't yet. And then you should play it before some of your like speaking engagements so people are like, wow, I really like that song. And you're like, if you're wondering who that is, it's me.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:You know what, that's not a bad idea because I do sometimes come out to music when I hit the stage, so that may not be a bad idea.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Yeah. Why not? It's one other like avenue of work you have out there.'cause you never know who's looking for female gay rap artist that's black that already can nose her shit,
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:I will take it. Listen folks, you heard it first here on Cocoon After Dark.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:There you go. There you go. It's so true. So what belief about leadership did you once hold is truth, but no longer aligns with who you are?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:These que I just have to one, just say how amazing these questions are,
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Thank you.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:super thoughtful and super intentional because it's making me really think as well. So just, I wanna make sure that I thank you for being so intentional about these questions. So when I talk about leadership in my presentation called Level Up Leadership, it focuses on leadership of we and I talk a lot about how we, growing up, we have all of these kind of descriptions of what a leader looks like. They have strong communication and they show up on time and, all of those things And some of those things are of course still important. But I think they're also a little outdated. And I think that we have a tendency to take on what is somewhat white culture or white. Male culture as well. And some people that I know, I do a lot of this work with, from white supremacy as well. A lot of that and I have had to learn or balance, okay, what has been taught and what do I need to get out of my head. And I think some of the things we are missing is that leadership of we, a lot of the leadership things that we have been taught have been all about me. What can I do to get ahead? We gotta pull ourselves up by the bootstraps, which is such a problematic saying. I have to say that because there are a lot of people who pull themselves up by the bootstraps and still can't get anywhere just because of things happening in society, who they are, how they look, whatever the case might be. So I feel like. The past several years I've had to shed some of that thinking of me, how do I get ahead? Forget about everybody else. All the greats have done it. They've, focused on themselves and I feel like some of the greatest leaders understand that it's not about me. It's about we.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Oh my God, yes. That's so amazing. And talk about bootstraps. Some people don't even have the boots to put on to pull off.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Hello?
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Yeah. So that's, we're coming from a whole different place there. It's so incredible. The things and the more people that I learn about as I learn about people in this podcast, where they've come, how they've come, and all these sorts of things, and. We don't all have the same opportunities, so why don't, doesn't anyone else understand that. Why is it, does it feel like it's mostly us in the L-G-B-T-Q community and bipoc spaces that understand that? I don't understand how you think that everyone was like you, that everyone got a meal three times a day, that everyone got, two or three Christmas presents for Christmas or what have you. This that's not normal for everyone,
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:it's even sometimes when they can see it with their own eyes it's. There are people in this world that will never experience some of the things that we've experienced because that's all they know. They don't see any other people that may not look like them or identify or whatever, or from lower socioeconomic backgrounds that are struggling, whatever the case is. And I'm sometimes, it's like they have these rose colored glasses on and they don't see any other world. They just see themselves. And that's a really unfortunate place to be in my opinion. It's a really unfortunate place to be, to not realize there's a whole world going on around you. And you never know what people are going through. and that's, that's what empathy looks like. And unfortunately, we are in a time that studies are showing that empathy is on the decline. and I think. People that don't get it or don't see it, unfortunately, lack this common emotion of empathy and realizing it goes back to saying, it's not about me. It's about we. And unfortunately there are people who really miss that mark. And let's be real Quincy. There are people who don't care. Are absolutely people who just unfortunately don't, they know what's happening and they don't care until it happens to them.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:And I think even if it does happen to them, I don't think that they realize the effect it will have on them. There's no place in their head for them to see, oh, now I'm like someone else.'cause this happened to me. Like it happened to them, but now they think it's only happened to me like it never happened to anyone else. And that's really unfortunate as well, right?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:You're right. It goes back to like me, not me, but it's and nobody else has had this feeling before. Nobody else has had this hurt. Oh my God, I can't believe this is happening. Meanwhile, a bunch of us are like, this has been happening. We have been waiting for you to get it. But you're right. Even when it does it's sometimes completely over their heads, which is unfortunate. And honestly, and not trying to bring it back to me, but this is why I do the work that I do.'Cause I'm always hoping there are people in the audience that have that aha moment that. Take a step back and look at how they show up in the world.'Cause it's so important. It's not just important for other people, but it's important for you too. I really believe that being uncomfortable and learning new things and unlearning things is a great opportunity for growth. and to just do better in this world.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Oh, 100%. I'm such an avid traveler and I do it because I like to get uncomfortable. I like to be in places where I'm trying to figure it out. The language, the food, the menu, the people, the etiquette. Are you allowed to talk on your phone? Are you not? Are you allowed to, walk around with food? Are you supposed to only eat in a restaurant?'cause there's been so many different countries where I've been to where in some countries that was okay. Some countries it wasn't. You don't talk on the metro or the subway in some countries, but in other countries, people are dancing and doing flips down the aisle, so it. Being uncomfortable changes you as long as you get in that place, right? Because you talk to some people and they go on the same trip that you went on and they come back and they did not have the experience you have. You're like, did you even go to that country? You even go to that town or that city or what have you. It could even be here in the United States, depending on where you travel to. Did you really go there? Because from what you're saying, it sounds like you just stayed, in DC or LA and didn't really have that experience, which is unfortunate.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Just outta curiosity, what's the last place you went?
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:The last place I was in Tulum actually during spring break and with my daughter, and it was not the Tulum that she thought it was gonna be at all. It was very third world, Considering it's supposed to be this, idyllic place, which it is very much but we literally would walk out of the place we were staying, no shoes or anything, and spend the rest of the day just walking up and down the beach, eating, talking to people. Like I didn't even have to take money. I could use my phone, thank gosh, because I didn't wanna carry around money. But it was like Old Mexico everything was just. There, and obviously if you stayed at a really nice resort, I'm sure it was different, but that wasn't the opportunity that I wanna take for my child when I took my child there. But, you're driving from the airport and no one had windows on their places. They had sheets hanging up and, no doors on their homes and things like that. And it was an experience that we weren't expecting when we got there. And I'm so glad we had it. We went to the place that we went regularly to eat, was called the best fucking tacos, and they had 30 different kinds of tacos for two bucks each, and beers and, just, it was very chill and that's where everyone hung out. It was the place to be, we weren't going to like, wherever the fancy restaurants were. I don't even honestly know where they were because it wasn't, like I said, the experience that we had, we walked and rode bikes and yeah, it was pretty incredible though to have that experience going there, not even knowing that's what it was gonna be like.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Yeah, you got the real, authentic experience. And you never know what you're gonna learn or what you're gonna appreciate. The things you have or the great things that are going on over there. I say both because we just went to Portugal not too long ago and I was like, oh my God, I feel like sometimes America might be killing us. Like I and I say that, like the food was healthy, everybody, it's just different. It's just completely different there. But then, you go some places and you realize, wow the things we do have and the things we are grateful for, but it's also good to know what is going on around the world. Because everything isn't like it is here and it's important that we know that. And it's important that we know how different people live, period. So I always say it's either or either you come back being grateful or you realize, oh wow, there are some other countries that are doing different things and it's working,
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:you're so right. The, I think the most culturally different place I ever traveled to was Asia, but specifically Japan. And obviously there's no homeless people there or anything like that, like there is here in LA and obviously other parts of the world and this country in particular, but it was so clean and the rules were so strict about what you could do and what you couldn't do that I came back home thinking everyone was a barbarian here, literally because they were they were so polite and friendly. Like we ended up, it was such a great trip. The very first day we were there, we, I don't even know how we met these guys, but we met these gay boys that danced for Disney at Tokyo, Disney, and they were phenomenal. Two of them were black guys. Another guy was like a Mexican Latin mix, and then this white dude, so there's these four of them, and they found out that my girlfriend and I were together and we made four best friends instant. they took us to like those secret lesbian and gay bars where you like have to go into a speakeasy basically. And then the door opens and you'd never know there was a door there and the door opens. It's like it's so soundproof that if you know somebody came, they would never know behind there. It was such a fantastic experience. But then when we went into Kyoto, it was like the exact opposite. It was so old world Japanese. We saw Geisha walking with the Geisha mother, whatever her title is, and that was mind blowing. Mind blowing. It's nighttime. And imagine memoirs of the geisha. And that's what we walked. That's what we did. We walked down those little walkways where the little river was running in between. And on the other side you could see these tea rooms with these geishas serving these Japanese business people, their tea. And it was such a trip. I kept going, are we in a film? Because this feels like other worldly and yeah, you have to travel to learn all of these things about the world, right?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:That sounds amazing'cause you got the the best of both worlds in your experience. That's how I felt about Costa Rica. I got to experience the mountains, then I got to experience more of the rainforest then, I don't know just, where the locals hang out. And it's really cool to just experience that. Japan is absolutely next on my list for sure.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:You will love it. You will absolutely love it. It is so phenomenal. But let's go back'cause this isn't a travel
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:no, I know. But please know, this is a great conversation.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:right? So what do people most often underestimate about you and your identity and softness until they're actually in the room with you?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:What do they underestimate? Part of me is I think that's a question for other people, but I think that masculine is center women sometimes are definitely judged a little bit differently. And I might even say. Masculine and center women of color especially, but I think it goes both ways. I don't know necessarily if I would say underestimate as much as maybe I. There are misconceptions. I know you asked, underestimate and I think I don't part of me is I, now I'm gonna ask, I don't know what that is, but I would say more misconceptions than anything. I think it's really important that people remember that at the end of the day, masculine is center women studs, boys, BOIS, however you wanna say it. At the end of the day, we're still women and we have feelings too. We don't always necessarily give to the stereotypes of, that, that question that straight people love to ask of who's the man and who's the woman and whatever. It's just like I'm comfortable in my body. I like wearing this. That's who I am and I'm very much. Ebony Bell pronoun, she, her, and I know obviously there are masculine in women that are they them or whatever. And that's great. And I think there's a misconception about our hardness and how we wanna be men or we wanna do the male roles or things like that. And Sure. Are there things that we take on that might be considered that? Absolutely. And are there things we don't take on? Absolutely. So I think sometimes there are definitely misconceptions about who we are and how we show up. I remember there was one time I'll never forget it'cause I was like, I can't believe this just happened. I was doing an event I think I mentioned earlier that I was, really involved in the queer DC community. Did a lot of events and it was a women's party or queer women's party a long time ago in DC. And I remember somebody had come up to me, I knew them, didn't, and they approached my partner first and was like, oh, hey, how are you? And my partner at the time, feminine could quote, unquote pass as straight, whatever. Fine with her. Then they turned to me and they were like, oh, what's going on, homie, da. And this was a white a white woman who did this to me and oh, what's going on? And trying to dap me up. And I'm like, what? She must have seen my face because I was so confused as to what the hell was going on. I was like, is this really happening? Is it like you see stuff like this? Like you hear about it, you see it in the movies. But it happened. And I, again, it's just a gross misconception. I liter, I can't remember what their response was, but I was like, why did you do that? Why did you think that made sense for you to do? And I can't, I honestly don't remember their response. I think they were definitely embarrassed as they should be. But I think those things happen unfortunately quite a lot and there's a lot of misconceptions there. And that's why I always tell people. Just treat people as a human being and start from there. And you can figure out the rest, figure out what's in their heart, figure out what they're into, what they sound like, whatever. Just treat people as human beings first and go from there. But yeah, I've had some wild experiences like that.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:That is so interesting. I saw for a while on my Instagram feed it coming, it kept coming up talking about mask feelings and boy feelings and things like that. We still want you to open the door for us sometimes. Buy us flowers let draw the whole bath for us. Like all of these things. And I was like, yeah, that's totally true. Because you're right, people would think that, they must not know a lot of gay boys because every gay boy I know wants to have a bath and you open the door for him and all these kinds of things too. So they live under rock, obviously. And that somebody, another queer person would then position you as a black woman. As this, like you said, dap, why are they doing this? I just can't figure out people. I was a women's studies major and an ethnic studies major, so this has been in my face for years from so many different perspectives. From the Asian perspective, from black perspective, from Native American perspectives, from, prison, industrial complex, like so many different ways where we're seeing things through different lenses. So for me, it's like after you take your first like music appreciation class that I also had to take in college, and the professor on the very first day, his first sentence was, after this class, you will never listen to music again the same way. And I was like, he's got to be kidding me. And he was right. 100%, right? So if I can change from listening to music differently, why can't other people put on and take off their rose colored glasses, their black colored glasses, their whatever, white, supremacy glasses. Why can't they take them off and see the rest of us, how we are the rainbow, literally the rainbow of people, the rainbow of flavors, of colors of things that we like and don't like, that's my rant about that.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:it's a good rant and it's a valid rant.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Thank you. Um, what belief about yourself is currently evolving? Softening, or reshaping?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Is you said is occurring.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:No. What's a current belief about yourself that's currently evolving?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:That is currently evolving. I'm trying to think. Funny is I feel like where I am now, I feel like I'm pretty, like set in my beliefs for the most part. But I also know there's always learning we can be doing and understanding that we can be doing. I think maybe if I had to pick a belief that maybe I'm still working on or trying to figure out honestly, it's my belief in God in the universe. I not think. That I'd be talking about this. But I grew up like a lot of people I grew up in church, and, learned all the things and was highly involved in Sunday school and all of that. And my my mom, I always find it funny. She would always have me participate in like the young people, like the readings we would do for the Easter program or whatever. And she would never let me read off of a paper. I always had to memorize it. And I remember I was like, oh, why do I have to do this? Nobody else is doing it. And I always joke now I'm a speaker that doesn't use notes, that doesn't do this. And I feel like she was preparing me for that. Anyway, that's a side note, but I grew up in the church, so highly highly involved. And then realize you're queer and you are trying to figure out what that looks like. I remember one of the last times when I was really young, One of the last sermons I heard was God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, and I was like, peace. I'm out. Don't want to do this anymore. And I'm grateful for the institutions, the churches, the folks that have stepped up to be inclusive of all people. Because last time I checked, that's what God wants. And I attended a couple of churches that were L-G-B-T-Q churches led by a queer pastor and all of that. And it was great. And I still feel like I am trying to figure out what my beliefs are when it comes to religion because it's hard to balance who you are and then believe in a religion that tells you are less than or you don't belong. And so I'm trying to figure out what that looks like for me. I also recognize, and we're getting a little deep here, as a black person and my ancestors who were brought here we were taught that Bible by people who oppressed us. And so I also go back and forth with, we were taught this is this still something we should really believe in? And that might sound controversial, but I'm not saying yes or no. I'm just saying these are things that I'm really starting to think about. I do believe in a higher power. I'm just trying to figure out what that looks like, if that makes any sense. And even at this big age of 40, I'm still right. I'm still trying to that out because I'm a big believer in my mind, body and soul being in alignment. And that is literally what I'm working on as we speak, is what does that look like? As far as my soul and my spirituality,
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Maybe we should start our own church, because what you're saying if other people, say the Book of Mormon, right? That was started by a prophet. If people can start their religions, why couldn't we start a religion right? Where whoever the creator is and they created it so that we're not going off a traditional Bible, we're like building something in and of itself that shows respect for everyone and the teachings that you know, kindness and goodness and volunteering and. Giving back, not just volunteering, but actually giving back in a way that is congruent with L-G-B-T-Q Religions. I don't know if Unitarianism is like that or not but it definitely seems like at this very critical point of where we are being gay and certain what do I wanna say? How about just gay and trans and biracial and multiracial and all of those sorts of things that you could build a place that actually was all inclusive and celebrate a creator that had no gender, that had no preference for any one over the other ever. It would just be such this beautiful thing that maybe could transform the way, like popular and common religions are now.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Yeah, you ne You never know. It's not a bad idea. And I think, yeah, Unitarian is probably the closest to, to what we're talking about. And my partner has joked and been like, listen, if all else fails, I feel like you could ch start a church or a cult. So
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:right,
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Cy,
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:I'm down.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:it, who.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:It might be you're west, you're east coast. I'm west coast, yeah. We could build it and meet in the middle, train all the,
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Let's do it. I have, listen, I have fantasies of taking over islands and making just queer communities and land like, so I'm here for it.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Yeah. And I still want the real island of Lesbos to be lesbian. That is my goal. I need to get there to that commune community. Very open, like clothing optional, really clean a thing.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Thought about this.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:I've thought about it. I have thought about it. Yes, let's just celebrate us as we are. No one in, like unintentionally gets pregnant or anything else. Like it's just this beautiful place we fly in sperm for those of us that wanna procreate,
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:I love this and I, it's so funny. I know we are not the only ones who have talked about this. I know. I, my I'm gonna take a guess, but I feel like at least 80% of queer women have probably talked about this extensively.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:For sure, because it needs to be talked about, like why not, right? Why not? If there was fraternities, years and years before their sororities, so if men were making all of these places that are still not allowed for women and things like that, then dammit, why can't we have an islander or two or a hundred?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Yeah. I don't know if you heard, and I don't know where it is. Folks that are listening, you're gonna have to Google it. But there is a, it's either like a vacation place, a retreat, something that is for women only. So it's like an all inclusive resort on a beach or wherever. But this came out like a few months ago. I just read about it and it's the only one that I know about, but one does exist, but it's for, all women no matter how you identify. But it seems to be really popular. So maybe we should at least check that out and see how they do things and then we can, make ours a little different.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Yeah, exactly. What's the flag look like? What's,
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:have thought about.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:yeah, I thought about it a lot. I.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:it. I love
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Let's just really quickly about the flag. The flag should be like all the different labia, LABAs and vulvas, the different shades with the different kinds that they are. Like that would be a great flag. Personally. I think that would be
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:goodness. And listen, we can get we can get ai to do it, for us to design it for us. So we just put in what we want.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Oh my God, that would be awesome. Okay, so I'm gonna ask you one more question'cause I know you've gotta go soon, but what,
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:You're fine. And before you say it, just so you know, the reason I looked over here is'cause my cat just came outta nowhere and jumped. I didn't want you to think that it had anything to do with rushing you. So we're
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:okay. Okay. So let's see. When future queer leaders look back at this era, at your contribution, your presence and your leadership, what do you hope they whisper about you?
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:There is a beautiful song from a woman you might know Beyonce.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Oh Face.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:and she has a beautiful song called, I Was Here, and Everything about That song is what I hope people would say and leave behind. And she basically talks about she wants people to be, she wants to leave a stamp on this world that people knew that she was here, that she made some sort of difference in someone's life. that's it, that's what I hope they whisper, that I made a difference in people's lives for the better. That's what I hope. No, no matter what that looks like. That is that is what I hope I give, because I go out and talk or when I just meet people I, I literally lead with. Joy and kindness and making sure that people feel seen and heard.'Cause to me that's one of the most powerful things you, you'll do in your lifetime. So I hope people would whisper and say that I made a difference in either their life or somebody else's life. Whether that's a young person we gave a scholarship to through the magazine, or I stepped on stage and said something really powerful that changed somebody's life or viewpoint to be a better individual. So that's what I hope people would say. And now you're gonna make me wanna listen to that song.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:I'm gonna wanna listen to that song again too. That is so beautiful.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:song. And
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Okay.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:time I hear it, I'm like, God I genuinely I hope that's, I hope that's me.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:That's so gorgeous. So as people are listening to this, speaking of, and they realize that you are exactly the person that they want on their stage or in their space, what do you want them to know about how you work and how they can bring you to that place, to that stage, to that classroom, to that arena? Let's go big the arena.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:Sure. So a couple of things you can expect, and then I'm, I want to obviously tell them how they can reach me. But you can always expect connection, authenticity and engagement. I absolutely love engaging with the audience. One of the first things I'll say is I'm not a fan of speaking at you. I'm a fan of speaking with you. So you will always get that from me no matter what I am talking about. If it's allyship leadership. My black history presentation, whatever, you'll always get that from me because it's about we and having a conversation and learning from one another. And of
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Yes.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:if anybody wants to find out more information about all of that my, my workshops, my my presentation topics, or even my voiceover work I have a website, which is just my name, ebony bell.com or ebonee is how it's actually pronounced. But people do call me Ebony. So it's ebony bell.com. And I would love, yeah, come visit, come follow me on all the social media platforms. I love connecting with people and I love, learning from different institutions and companies and schools. So I'd love to hear from you all.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:That's amazing. I will make sure and put that in the notes and things like that too, the right spelling and everything for everybody. But Ebonee, thank you so much. Not just for sharing your story, but for living it with openness and integrity. Your leadership expands what's possible. Your existence gives permission, and your work reminds us that representation isn't a trend, it's a legacy. This conversation will sit with us and I'm so grateful for the space you've made, the truth you've spoken, and the paths you've carved. So thank you for being here. I really appreciate it.
ebone-bell--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_141312:And thank you for having me. And thank you people like me a voice. I'm really excited to see this podcast continue to grow and do amazing things, so thank you.
quincy--she-her-_1_11-18-2025_111313:Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
