Intersections of Voice and Identity: Discovering Jen Cheng

Intersections of Voice and Identity: Discovering Jen Cheng

Host Quincy interviews Jen Cheng, poet laureate of West Hollywood, about voice, identity, community, and showing up authentically. After rapid-fire questions, Jen reads her poem “10,000 Butterflies,” written in 2023 for a Grand Performances opportunity, tracing family survival, war, displacement, and queer safety across Hong Kong, China, and Buenos Aires. Jen discusses her pronouns (“she/ke”) and how Cantonese lacks binary gendered pronouns, then explains Cantonese vs. Mandarin and efforts to suppress Cantonese. She describes writing in English while incorporating Cantonese pronunciation, teaching workshops through the West Hollywood Library and WeHo Arts Pride, and moderating a March 29 event with the Mazer Lesbian Archives honoring Eloise Klein Healy. Jen shares coping tools (listening to Maya Angelou and James Baldwin), performance-anxiety techniques, a short rainbow meditation, and closes by reading “Still I Stand,” plus where to find her classes and links.

00:00 Meet Jen Cheng

01:10 Rapid Fire Warmup

01:59 Poem 10000 Butterflies

06:56 Pronouns and Language

08:23 Cantonese vs Mandarin

10:48 Writing and Roots

14:07 Identity Shapes Art

17:14 Creative Breakthroughs

20:30 Finding Your Voice

23:37 Poet Laureate Life

27:33 Teaching and Queer Joy

31:46 Stage Fright Tools

35:50 Stress and PTSD Tools

36:40 Grandma Confidence Story

39:15 Grief and Spirit Guide

39:53 Visibility on National Stage

43:55 Coming Out and Pride

47:27 Proudest Personal Growth

50:00 Guided Rainbow Meditation

54:30 Chakras and Creativity Blocks

57:59 Courage Creativity Belonging

59:11 Closing Poem and Where to Find

Transcript

Quincy 0:02

Hi, everyone. Tonight feels a little bit different because some voices don't just speak. They gather us, soften us, and somehow return us to ourselves. Jen Chang is one of those voices. She's the poet laureate of West Hollywood. Yes, but that title barely holds the depth of what she actually does. Jen is a poet, a performer, a voice artist, and a builder of spaces where people feel seen in ways they didn't even know they were craving. Her work lives at the intersection of identity, community and language rooted in her experience as a queer Asian American woman and shaped by a life that has learned how to listen deeply. But what draws me to Jen isn't just what she creates. It's how she creates. There's a tenderness in her presence, a kind of quiet courage that invites you to slow down and really feel what's being said and maybe what. Even isn't said tonight. We're not just talking about poetry, we're talking about voice belonging, the spaces we build, and when we finally decide to show up as we are. So settle in because this is the kind of conversation that lingers. Jen, I'm so honored to have you here, and we are gonna start with a couple of rapid fire questions, and then Jen has so graciously agreed to read one of her poems for us right after that. So here we go. Truth or comfort?

Jen 1:26

Truth

Quincy 1:28

stage lights or candlelight.

Jen 1:30

Ooh, candlelight.

Quincy 1:33

A line you wrote or one you wish you did.

Jen 1:36

Oh, the one I wish I did

Quincy 1:41

be fully understood or a little mysterious

Jen 1:45

Both.

Quincy 1:45

Hmm. Lovely.

Jen 1:46

Yeah.

Quincy 1:47

What's sexier confidence or vulnerability?

Jen 1:51

I am gonna have to say both again.

Quincy 1:53

Right, right. Perfect. So let's go ahead and have you read your poem now.

Jen 1:59

Thank you, Quincy. This poem's called 10,000 Butterflies. I wrote it in 2023 in response to a beautiful opportunity to perform in downtown LA at Grand Performances. And intersectionality is something that oftentimes requires too much explanation. So I thought a poem would just handle it. Um, and here we go, 10,000 butterflies. How many butterflies had to flutter to change the weather patterns? Enough for my ancestors to survive, to escape the cultural cleansing that was meant to erase those who were different. Pop Paul said. Minnie did not make it especially on your father's side. Taylors, those who had skills too smart, some drown. They had to swim across the borders to British colony Hong Kong, where they made a new life. But why I asked d Gaia DGA to survive, to escape the bad guys, grandma tried to explain to me when I was only five, when I was a teen, the Japanese soldiers could have taken me. I had to take the suit, the suit, the burnt bottom, black bits of the wok and rubbed it on my face to make me ugly and claim my older brother as my husband, because the soldiers were likely to take away the single young pretty girls. Young. Pretty girls were taken away during the war, so she had to pretend it was safer to be ugly. What if Grandma Papa had been taken away? I wouldn't be here today. I wouldn't be here today if mom didn't marry dad, because dad promised Ahah on her deathbed that he would return to find a bride back in Hong Kong. Back in Hong Kong in 1996. I traveled as a college student before the turnover to China to find my roots. So much missing history, but my relatives said I had to promise, never go to China alone. Never go to China alone without a tour group to protect you because you don't speak Mandarin and you stand like an American. Anything you say or not say will make you a rebel for no reason. A lowly policeman can throw you in jail and. Will be disappeared. Disappeared. Like the Des from the protest songs of Latin America. I sang with my college choir. Oh, the Power of bold gay men in the streets of Buenos Aires. Reclaiming the slang. Mari. I found the underground Lesbian Club in Buenos Aires, down an empty street, down a stairwell to a basement of an archaic, where I asked a girl to dance with me, dance with me. She and her friends laughed at this loca, this crazy Nita Torres traveling alone wandering into a club that bna, where the police still raided gay clubs and I could be disappeared. So they drove me home. They drove me home to Palermo where I was staying with the gay boys who weren't allowed at the lesbian clubs. But were friends with the proudly out local Mariosa who worked@planetout.com, planet out.com, one of those 1990s gay websites where we hungrily scoured for travel information to find the fun and find where we thought we could safely travel. But what about the places that were not safe? Not safe to be pretty boys or butch girls? I pass as a femme and could claim one of the boys as my husband for different reasons than grandma. It's a different kind of war to survive. To survive the political winds that sometimes swing violent. I now choose to live in a proud gay little haven where I imagine I walk without the threat of being disappeared as I count the miracles of butterflies.

Quincy 6:38

So, so beautiful. I love that. I loved how you got into all the characters.'cause I wasn't expecting that. Right? I was expecting just the poem, right. And just you reading your words and the way you embodied it and watching your face and everything was so amazing. But at the beginning, before we started recording, I asked you what your pronouns were and I want you to tell everyone what you told me.'cause it was magnificent.

Jen 7:04

Oh. Um, I speak multiple languages and I am, my first language is actually Cantonese. And in Cantonese, uh, we don't have binary gendered pronouns. It's co, we're all kind of a version of it. And the joke is that I was misgendered as a child because my father refused to learn. He she pronouns. So I was heed all the time and all my sisters were too. It was just. His lack of wanting to deal with English pronouns. So I say that my pronouns are she a K because I want people to know I speak Spanish and any pronoun will do. I've been pronouns in all the ways. So, but K feels most, uh, appropriate because it was my mother tongue. And also I don't believe in the binary, so I present as femme. For those of you who might wonder what I look like or maybe visually impaired, I have shoulder length hair, black, uh, Chinese, straightish hair and brown eyes, and I'm petite. And I do my best to stand tall On a good day, I'm five, two and three quarters. Woo.

Quincy 8:22

Oh, that's so cute. Can you tell people the difference between Cantonese and Mandarin and who speaks what and where?

Jen 8:29

Ooh, yeah. Uh, so from that poem, you might have surmised that my ancestry comes from Hong Kong. And, uh, in the global history of colonialism, the British, uh, taken a lot of the port cities important for trade. And so the Hong Kong British colonials, I joke that I have a bit more in common, uh, with Indians who were also British subjects because we got some of the British habits like black current candy and Maltesers instead of whoppers. Hmm. Um, so in terms of food and some of the culture, we from Hong Kong had a lot more advanced economies because it was. Trading Nexus and in fact, the Japanese technology, uh, were using Hong Kong consumers as a testing ground in the eighties, if you remember Beta versus vhs. Mm-hmm. And laser discs that no longer are in the, um, in the market. But yeah, Hong Kong was Hollywood that we have brilliant directors like Juan Kwe and um, just amazing Cantel pop that was really popular before this current phenomenon of K-Pop.

Quincy 9:52

Mm-hmm. Right.

Jen 9:53

Yeah. And so Mandarin is the language of mainland China, of the Imperial Court in Beijing. And since the turnover back to China, uh, there has been quite a bit of effort of what, um, is known as linguicide, where Cantonese is being suppressed by the imperial. Government of China. And, uh, the trend is that we oversee Chinese diaspora. Children are, uh, going to become more the language speakers of Cantonese than, uh, residents in Hong Kong. And there are quite a number of campaigns, uh, to save the language. And as a poet,

Quincy 10:35

right,

Jen 10:35

we care about language, we want Ukrainian children to be able to speak Ukraine and we want, you know, families, children, everybody to be able to speak their mother tongue.

Quincy 10:46

Yes. Yeah, I agree. So do you write in Cantonese some of your work?

Jen 10:51

I wish,

Quincy 10:52

yeah.

Jen 10:53

Uh, so I am a proud eldest daughter of immigrant parents, and I often say that I have a grandma who was illiterate.

Quincy 11:04

Mm.

Jen 11:04

And Cantonese Chinese. We share the same character writing as Mandarin. Um. I don't have the memoriz, I don't have the memorization power that is needed to remember all the characters. So had I been born in China, I would be illiterate. But because I was born on US soil in San Francisco Bay Area, um, I am literate and I am able to be a poet in English. I do write in the ways that we pronounce, uh, Cantonese into the English, uh, what, what do you say it, um, in English, I write in the way you pronounce Cantonese words so that I can incorporate my mother tongue into. My work so I could be bilingual or trilingual.

Quincy 11:53

Right. I thought, I think that's so fascinating because I remember when I was in high school and I took Spanish and French. Mm-hmm. And tons of my Spanish speaking friends were taking Spanish and I was like, that's not fair. They're gonna get an A. They didn't get an A because they didn't read it and they didn't write it right. And they knew like the sentence structure, but they didn't know so much more than that. So I totally understand where you're coming from. In addition, we're Native American and our tribe is re um, birthing our language as well. And it's so funny because for years this white man who was a teacher at PAL Mar College in San Diego, a junior college, was one of the only speakers of our language. And he just happened to be one of those very linguistically, um, intelligent persons that came in and sat with our tribe and learned the language. And then I. Taught

Jen 12:46

Documented.

Quincy 12:46

Yes. Documented it, taught it in Palomar College. Came and helped a Rosetta Stone develop a whole series for our language, which we're very small. What's

Jen 12:56

your language called?

Quincy 12:56

Our language is called Luyo. There are only 2,500 of us, and we have our own Rosetta Stone so that we don't lose our language. That's

Jen 13:04

so amazing.

Quincy 13:04

We have our own school where we teach our language now to the kids, so it's definitely amazing how the revival of the language we get a lot of our correspondence opens up with our language and it's beautiful. Right. And still so many of us don't know it, but the fact that people are doing their best to not let it die is so, so important. So thank you for sharing that with

Jen 13:29

us. Yeah. So much of our culture is in our elders and in oral history and not necessarily written down.

Quincy 13:35

Yeah.

Jen 13:35

And so as a poet in my family, I feel like I need to try to capture the. Stories I can remember that my grandmother told me when I was five.

Quincy 13:47

Right. All of those grandmother stories. And why is it so much our grandmothers and not like our grandfathers, you know?

Jen 13:53

Well we know the history of patriarchy that the men are just, you know, reserved and the grandmas are the ones who hold the family secrets and the, the tea.

Quincy 14:04

Yeah. Yeah.

Jen 14:05

That's so true.

Quincy 14:07

Alright, so we are going to go on into our interview. Um, as a queer Asian American artist, how has your identity shaped not just what you create, but how you create it? And I know we've kind of been talking about that a little bit, but like exactly. What is that process?

Jen 14:23

Well, I think part of becoming, becoming more you is really owning your roots and. As a kid who grew up in the Bay Area, I did experience a lot of racism and sexism, and so I tried to hide. I was the quiet girl to try to not get bullied. And I think a lot of queer folk have the experience of being bullied or shamed, and you add layers upon being a girl, being Asian American, all of that. It made it that my coming out process was later in college. Um, and I think however you express yourself, whether it's drawing through art, visual art, or dance, I think all creativity is fundamental to us, loving ourselves, being more human, being more ourselves. My, I mentioned this earlier that my mother tongue, Cantonese, uh, is my first language, and then I learned French and Spanish. Being multilingual really affects how I write because I know that English is not the only way my brain thinks. Um, even though Cantonese is not my best language and I can't write in it exactly, I, I really thank it for being so poetic. I had this conversation with a fellow Asian American, also queer the other day, and I said I didn't own being a poet because I just thought, everyone thought the way I did, especially because I lean on my Cantonese brain, um, in four words. In Cantonese, you could say something super poetic, and my friend said, not everyone who speaks Cantonese is a poet. By the way, I was like, oh, huh. My brain is different.

Quincy 16:21

That's so true. Right? Because we do think sometimes that everyone else knows what we know, and then when you start having a conversation with people and they don't, you have to step back for a second. You're, you're, it's almost like this entitled or privileged position, right? That we get to have these incredible experiences with people without really seeing that No, they don't know what that is. Right?

Jen 16:46

Yeah. And that all queer people are not the same, for sure. Oh my gosh. Is why I'm so excited we're having this conversation. Because to be in conversation amongst other L-G-B-T-Q folks, we're, we're all creative in our own way. And there are similar through lines. Um, there's validation and recognition, so. I hope listeners that you can see a little bit of yourselves in this conversation.

Quincy 17:11

Oh, for sure, for sure. Thank you for saying that. Um, when was the last time something broke you open creatively and what came out of that?

Jen 17:20

Oh gosh. You're gonna have to give me a few seconds to think about

Quincy 17:25

that ahead. Take your time.

Jen 17:27

Oh, I think I have it. I know a lot of us are coping with bad news and that doom scrolling is definitely a threat to our mental health and self-care is really important. So for me, when bad news breaks me, I, I go and listen. Poetry is an audio experience. Um, and it can be, uh, something you read. I. Go and find old YouTube clips of Maya Angelou speaking her poetry or even giving a commencement speech, and I call her like the poetry auntie that we need because she was so wise. Another person I listened to is James Baldwin, another queer black, uh, man who's so brave to write, uh, in a time that his words were not well accepted. So I really look backwards into history to find that support, to say if these elders trailblazers did it in their time, when time was even more unfriendly to L-G-B-T-Q folks, then I can lean on their courage and find that courage inside of me.

Quincy 18:52

Right, right. That is so true because. Despite the fact of everything that's happening. Right. It was so much more dangerous before

Jen 19:01

it was harder to find community. Yeah. Like right now you can find us on this podcast. Mm-hmm. Or on online communities. Mm-hmm. The digital age has allowed us to find each other, but it also lets us take it for granted.

Quincy 19:14

Right.

Jen 19:14

So I want you to value your L-G-B-T-Q friends and your allies.

Quincy 19:19

Right.

Jen 19:19

Whoever supports you. Yeah. Hang on to that.

Quincy 19:22

Yes.'cause it's few and far between. And you, you start to realize as you age, how many people don't have your back. Right. You thought they had your back'cause you were a kid and you played on the playground together and they came over to your house and things like that and you thought you were equals. And now as adults and you realize you're not. And it's heartbreaking. Right. It's really heartbreaking to see that children don't see all of the necessarily. All of the color, all of the differences at all times. Right. They have moments where they just wanna be included, they just wanna play and have fun.

Jen 19:57

Yeah. And if they did discriminate or bully you, it was stuff that they learned from their parents or their church or their community. Mm-hmm. So, um, I think as adults, we need to have more play in our life. Yes. So whether that's singing to your Best Diva Anthem song, right. To get you pumped up, uh, do that Right. Or do your boogie dance, your disco dance, you know, uh, Gloria Gainor has our back.

Quincy 20:27

Oh my gosh. She totally does. She totally does. So you've built a life around voice and expression. What do you believe is the true purpose of finding one's voice?

Jen 20:38

Finding your voice is really becoming who you are and who you are meant to be. I think if you're spiritual, you. Understand that sometimes things are beyond you. And I didn't think that being some kind of creative professional or a poet was an option in my life. And I've taken improv, I acknowledge and appreciate opportunities that are gifted to me. And so I feel like becoming a poet laureate was a gift to let me stand more in my power and have a title and some opportunities to open more spaces for more people to feel welcome. Mm-hmm. And that's, um, part of yes and right, that when things occur, it's a gift. And I was like, okay, I, I guess I'm the steward of this gift.

Quincy 21:41

That is so great. So just like, we don't know, we, we have the option to be gay, right? At certain points of our life, of whatever part of the L-G-B-T-Q. What made you really think though, that being a poet wasn't an option?

Jen 21:55

Was or was not,

Quincy 21:56

was not an option?

Jen 21:58

I came from hard working, um, lower middle class parents who wanted me to have a government job or be a doctor, a lawyer who hasn't heard of that in the Asian American community. You gotta be a doctor, a lawyer. I'm like, no, I'm scared of blood. Uh, yeah. I really don't wanna be in lawsuits. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I was a computer programmer and everybody's like, oh, great, you can be in tech. I'm like, Hmm, no, I want something more creative and interesting. They're like, well, go get a government job. I'm like, well also, you know, like there, there are so many things where people want you to have a stable. Paycheck and is this economy keeps changing that union job, that nine to five job is less available to a lot of us. So, and if you're a creative person with many interests, it's harder to just fit your wiggly very interesting self into a square box. Right, right. So yeah, being a creative people perpetuate that in dominant culture that you're gonna be a starving artist or, you know, you need to go get a white collar or stable job. And I'm like, I sure I want that. But that doesn't exist for being a poet. You kind of have to put together teaching gigs and, uh, performing gigs and all the things and write grants. Um, being a creative is. Very similar to being an entrepreneur. Mm-hmm. Except you're a solopreneur. Mm-hmm. You know, handling your paperwork and your, your gig booking.

Quincy 23:37

Right. So what do you feel like you spend the most time at as a poet laureate now

Jen 23:42

as a poet laureate? The city of West Hollywood's really supportive. Um, I get to propose teaching workshops and classes at the library. I get to be part of the Wi Ho Arts Pride Festival. We were just talking about that. Mm-hmm. This, um, this week planning for Harvey Milk Day, which is at the end of May. And we will have a two day WeHo Arts festival where I'll teach a queer version of improv that will help stretch your mind to have new characters or new ways of expressing yourself as a writer. So there's a fun, fun exercise called foreign poets. And you can just speak in gibberish and your scene partner will translate that into a poem and

Quincy 24:33

Oh,

Jen 24:33

wow. You discover something together. So I, I feel like the city of West Hollywood and, uh, shout out to my amazing administrator, Mike Cha, they give me some creative freedom to do that. So I think as a poet laureate, a lot of time is spent on planning.

Quincy 24:52

Mm-hmm.

Jen 24:53

You know, so this class might be a one hour, 75 minute, a two hour class, but we have to think about how to structure the class, do some outreach, try to. Get people aware that this free resource of a class exists at the library or at the Arts festival.

Quincy 25:08

Oh, that's so exciting. How fun. Have you worked at all with the Maser archives

Jen 25:14

that's coming up? Thanks for asking. Yes, I'm very delighted. Um, the Maser Lesbian Archives, uh, is doing a great job of celebrating March of Women's Herstory Month, and it's important that people notice that Herstory Month has lesbians, sic and queer women behind this history of herstory of women, um, leading the way. And we were celebrating our featured poet, Eloise Klein Healy, who was the inaugural poet laureate for the City of Los Angeles. And, um, I call her an elder. And in Cantonese and Chinese. Culture an elder is a esteemed, honorable title, and I know not everyone feels that way, uh, in their different cultural upbringing. So yes, Eloise Klein Healy is a trailblazer doing a feature, sharing her poetry, and I am moderating that event. At is Sunday, March 29th, 2:00 PM at the West Hollywood Council Chambers. I hope you all come check it out. We get to see some of the archives from, uh, the Maser. We are celebrating some of the poetry from those archives and it'll be great fun of different generations, different cultures mixing and celebrating, uh, poetry from the archives.

Quincy 26:38

Oh, how exciting. I know this weekend, I think it's on Saturday, we're not gonna be in town because we're going to Palm Springs to the red dress dress, red Event in Palm Springs, which is gonna be so gay. It's at the um, Palm Springs Airport. I've never been before, but my partner and I got tickets for it and I'm so excited to go. But anyway, they're having a crafting day and they're That's this week?

Jen 27:06

Yes. That's this week on Thursday night.

27:08

Oh,

Quincy 27:08

it's Thursday night. Okay.

Jen 27:09

And then there's a gallery opening with a photo exhibit on Saturday.

Quincy 27:14

Okay. That's

Jen 27:14

how, so check out the Maser Lesbian Archives, their website, their social media, and uh, see what they're offering.

Quincy 27:21

Yeah, definitely. You guys, you know that I was at the Maser Archives a few weeks ago and it was so phenomenal. It was so phenomenal. I interviewed both of them and we had such a great time. But, um, when your work touches so many people, when do you feel most connected to the impact that you're making?

Jen 27:40

Hmm. I'm a lifelong teacher, so when a student comes up to me after class and says, I've had writer's block for years, and this exercise you gave us. I think I can write again. Wow. Yeah. See the gasp that you just did, like that makes me gasp and I'm like, oh, I had no idea. That's fantastic. I mean, all of us suffer doubt and creativity blocks and I really encourage people, please go take classes. So much is offered for free at the libraries and at community centers. And I'll have to give shout out to L la LGBT Center. There's free events there. Um, there are oftentimes sampler trial classes at improv theater places where they're very welcoming. Um, find a way to find your joy, and I really celebrate queer joy because queer joy, you focusing on your joy is really living and there are so many negative factors out there. We've got to protect ourselves. We gotta find our solidarity, our buddies, our supporters to help celebrate joy. And so anytime you see a celebration, whether it's Chinese, new Lunar New Year, or Vietnamese Tet, um, go hang out. Even if it's not your culture. Like go be open-minded and explorer. Be learning all the time because you are needing to expand your mind. Otherwise you don't use it, you'll lose it.

Quincy 29:26

That's true. It totally is true. I mean, I've given birth to a few different kids and just that change in your brain is so significant, right? When they talk about mom brain and, you know, elder brain and all those things, it's so real. Perimenopause brain post, menopause brain, and to keep your brain continuously exercising and working will help you through those, you know. Um, hormonal shifts and all those other things so much more readily. Right. Because the plasticity or the elasticity of the brain is so incredibly important. Do you do any sort of, um, readings or things like that, like at elder care homes and teaching poetry and stuff like that there?

Jen 30:10

Yeah, I can I add back to opening the brain?

Quincy 30:15

Yes.

Jen 30:15

Um, so also the joy part, uhhuh experiencing different cultures, different classes, even if you're not good at it, you know, like being a beginner, that curious mind.

Quincy 30:26

Yes.

Jen 30:27

Any age, um, that's joy. And the Chinese word for joy is open heart. So remember that we're not just brains, but we're souls. We're hearts. We're passionate people. And just to remember to take care of your heart. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, that's

Quincy 30:44

so beautiful. So beautiful.

Jen 30:46

Back to your question about, um, teaching. Um, with seniors.

Quincy 30:51

Mm-hmm.

Jen 30:51

Uh, some people don't like to be called seniors. Right. They like

Quincy 30:54

to

Jen 30:54

be called older adults. Um, I like to call them elders. Um, so at, at the L-L-A-L-G-B-T Center, there are senior services classes. So I had the, um, honor of teaching a multi-class, um, series of writing characters. Mm-hmm.

Quincy 31:14

Mm-hmm.

Jen 31:14

So that was fun seeing people explore characters. Uh, sometimes you can write an exaggerated version of your crazy uncle or your, you know, gossipy aunt, whatever it is. Right. And then it unleashes something. So exaggerating your memories to create a new fictional character is a great way to get started if you wanna get creative.

Quincy 31:42

Oh, that's so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Um. What has been the most defining moments in your journey that shaped the woman and the artist you are today?

Jen 31:53

Oh, one defining moment. I think we're accumulation of many defining moments. Let's see. I was starting to talk to you earlier before we started this, uh, podcast that I have struggled with performance anxiety, and I did find a music therapist to help me out. I've sung in choirs in college and for more than a decade in different community choirs, including Stonewall Corral in New York City and Vox Femina here in Los Angeles. And I'm happy as a choir girl, but soloing is challenging for me. And for those of you who have performance anxiety or stage anxiety, I am so here for you. It's. It's not easy and it's a nervous system, body response. It's not all in your head. It's like some of it is out of your control. So, um, learning to breathe, even though I know how to breathe as a singer, learning to breathe when your nervous system wants to go on the fritz, you know, being grounded in your feet, uh, learning those exercises and techniques to stay in my body and not freak out, that was really key to letting myself be more creative.

Quincy 33:18

Mm.

Jen 33:18

Because being on stage solo, whether you're singing or performing poetry or giving a speech, it's actually like the number one thing of people's fears, uh, worse than going to a dentist. So shout out to all the amazing dentists. We love you for keeping us healthy. Um, but yeah, stage fright is a thing that many people struggle with and it. Stops them from being creative. So find the classes, seek help, a music therapist, an art therapist. Those have been really helpful guides and teachers for me.

Quincy 33:56

So what sort of techniques did they give you to help you overcome it? Well, not the imagine everyone naked kind

Jen 34:02

of thing. Oh, please. No, I don't wanna see everyone naked. That's too distracting. Like, I'm like,

Quincy 34:09

you're like she's really hot. But I should not be thinking about that right now.

Jen 34:13

Actually, some people look better in clothes. Yes, that

Quincy 34:16

is true. That is true.

Jen 34:18

Let's just be honest. Um, yeah, I think that really feeling your body, feeling your feet, practicing meditation to calm your nervous system before the performance anxiety hits. I've learned some yoga stretches. Definitely check out the Ted talk about power poses. You know, lifting your ribs up and doing that Wonder Woman pose for two and a half minutes in the bathroom or a hallway before you have to get on stage. Those things all really help because how

Quincy 34:52

does that, that one help the one that you're demonstrating right now? So like, her chest is out, her shoulders are back, and you can definitely tell the, like your d diaphragm is open,

Jen 35:00

you're lifting your ribs so you're not collapsing in bad posture. Right? So if you stand in a hero pose, everyone knows what a hero pose is. You know, hands on the hips, chest out. Mm-hmm. You know, Mr. Incredible. Mm-hmm. Um, or or Wonder Woman. I like Wonder Woman. She's already sexy. Yes, yes. Um, very. Yeah. Uh, so if you keep that tall posture, then there's physical flow. Of your electricity, of your blood flow and your breath is much easier. So if you start breathing badly, then there goes your, um, ability to control your speech and your singing and all of that.

Quincy 35:43

Okay.

Jen 35:43

Yeah. Two and a half minutes of power poses Ted talk. Check it out. I didn't come up with it. Uh, it brings down your stress hormone, your cortisol levels. They've done studies.

Quincy 35:54

Oh, wow.

Jen 35:55

So some of it is chemical.

Quincy 35:58

Yeah.

Jen 35:58

Some of it might be PTSD. Maybe you had a very bad, scary experience performing as a kid or some other time, and you need to process that. Right. And that's where journaling is very helpful. And then journaling can then get, you know, edited and massaged, and sculpted into a possible poem.

Quincy 36:20

Oh, that's so great. I was telling you that I don't get stage fright, but my body feels that like electricity, yes. That vibration, like I'm definitely a little bit shaky and things like that, but it's not because I'm nervous. I just get so excited to share what I'm gonna share or you know, say something or perform. And I don't know how it must feel to be afraid of that because to me it's like one of the most glorious moments in my life from my childhood through like, I think the first time I was on stage I was like three or four. I was in a fashion show and my mom was part of like the women's club or something like that, and they were having a fashion show and they wanted moms and daughters and whatever. And my grandma made my outfit and I was so proud of it to go out and wear something that my grandma made, you know?

Jen 37:07

So you have a very positive core memory. Yeah. And that really helps. So you're right, it's just electricity. And for those of us who have the lizard brain fear brain trying to protect us, we wanna be more like you. Mm-hmm. And so mind over matter. Yes, we can harness that electrical energy and swing it towards excitement, away from fear and say, look at how much joy I am gonna bring to my audiences. Look at how much joy I can share with my poem, with my song or comedy that I'm gonna put out there. So yeah, you got it. Good job for grandma.

Quincy 37:47

It was so empowering and then she did it like a few years later. I just remember all of these like really monumental opportunities and times that I had where she wanted to sew my clothes. You know, I had one grandma that sewed my actual clothes that I wore, and my other grandma sewed my Barbie doll clothes.

Jen 38:04

Wow.

Quincy 38:04

And it was so special, right? It was so incredibly special to, and I don't know that I realized it as much as I do now, but I definitely noticed a difference when I was a kid, I knew what it looked like that people went to Sears and bought gr animals and I was wearing something that was made and people would comment on it, like, I really love your outfit. So I grew up like continually embodying what my, the, the power and the confidence that my grandma gave me, right? And I was so sad when she died because I was like, oh my God, who's gonna be my hero now? Who's gonna be my number one fan? Right? Because we were so much for each other. Like the day I got my driver's license, I suddenly became her driver. And I'm like, you're trusting me to drive you now. Like I just learned to drive. Yes, here we go. And we'd be like driving for all these errands and things like that. But she just gave me so. Much confidence and she wasn't very confident herself at all, but she gave me that power. I don't know where it came from. I don't know how she thought that I needed it. Out of all of the grandkids,

Jen 39:06

I can tell you she loved you so much. That confidence she didn't have that she gave you is her love.

Quincy 39:14

Ah, it was. That's

Jen 39:15

beautiful.

Quincy 39:15

It was unbreakable and I still have dreams with her.

Jen 39:19

Aw.

Quincy 39:19

When things are really hard, she comes to me when I am in the hardest moments, she shows up.

Jen 39:24

She's your spirit guide. Yes,

Quincy 39:26

totally. She holds my hand. She rarely talks, but she holds my hand. She's in presence. I can feel her, I can smell her. All of those things. It is. So intense. And she passed away in 2000. It's been 26 years. And I still have that like, and all I catch my breath. Like right now I can feel how my heart and my little chest is like, oh, I miss her so much. You know?

Jen 39:46

Well, she sounds like the best grandma ever. I wish I could have met her. Oh, that's so cute. That's so cute.

Quincy 39:53

Um, how do you stay grounded while stepping into roles that carry visibility and responsibility at the same time?

Jen 40:01

Hmm. So most recently I had the honor of presenting with the Academy of American Poets in Washington DC at the National Book Festival.

Quincy 40:13

Congratulations.

Jen 40:14

Thank you. I was chosen as a poet laureate fellow this past year, uh, one out of 22, I think. Wow. And with that honor, I had the stage and a national venue and. There were other L-G-B-T-Q poet laureate fellows in my cohort that we were all presenting together.

Quincy 40:36

Amazing.

Jen 40:37

As an eldest daughter, knowing that visibility is important and I look femme, so I might not be seen as lesbian.

Quincy 40:49

Mm-hmm.

Jen 40:50

Um, I ran as the bookstore was closing, I called all over town. I needed a rainbow flag pin because I didn't have one with me, and I wanted to wear that on the collar of my shirt because I knew this was getting recorded and put up on YouTube, on the Library of Congress channel.

Quincy 41:15

Wow.

Jen 41:15

And who knows who needs to see me?

Quincy 41:19

Mm-hmm.

Jen 41:19

Wear that rainbow pin because sometimes you might have a family that's not supportive of L-G-B-T-Q. People you might be not sure or questioning. And if I can be a face of someone who is queer and lesbian and can be a supportive, friendly person, even if I'm just a virtual image on that video on the Library of Congress, that speaks to a general audience that might change someone's mind, who might be a mom who's unaware of L-G-B-T-Q community, who's struggling with their child being queer. Um, that little pin was worth my running around town, calling around, trying to find that pin, and I called the bookstore. DC and I said, I know I'm gonna be in the middle of traffic and I'm taking a lift to you right now, and I know you close at six, but I need to get this pin because I will not have time to get it tomorrow, and I need to get this pin because I'm on a national stage and I don't know who this is for, but I need to wear this.

Quincy 42:32

That's

Jen 42:32

so peaceful. They stayed open. I got there at like 6 0 2 and I was like, please still be here. Oh, wow. So yeah, it was one of those movie moments where I'm like rushing like this is important. I don't know who needs to see it. I don't know who needs to hear me perform this poem with that pin on, but that was important to me.

Quincy 42:53

Yeah, you're exactly right. Right. Because you don't know when that moment is that someone happens to turn on that YouTube. Right. And they're on the brink of something to catastrophic. Debilitating or what have you, and they get to take a breath of fresh air and see themselves in you. Right. And see that there's tomorrow, there's the next minute, right.

Jen 43:19

There's someone who cares. Mm-hmm. Someone who might look like them mm-hmm. Someone who doesn't look like them, but still cares. Right? Yeah. Um, so I think wearing pins to show solidarity, to show we're in community is important because it's a way of sharing your voice visually.

Quincy 43:36

Mm-hmm.

Jen 43:36

Even if I don't say I'm lesbian.

Quincy 43:38

Yeah.

Jen 43:38

Right. Yeah. So, um, I, I encourage everybody to show solidarity when you can, and that your voice is sometimes visual and it could be as small as a little quarter of a pin.

Quincy 43:52

Right? Right. It's so beautiful. I, um, always believe that showing people that a. Obviously think I'm not gay, showing them that I am and talking like I am and saying, you know, very upfront or, you know, holding my girlfriend's hand or kissing her, or just presenting myself any way that I can so that people see the uniqueness and the difference in all the people that are gay and lesbian and trans and non-binary and, you know, androgynous, all of those things. How important it is, like you said, that visibility, but like speaking it, please don't consider me something else because I have earned being a lesbian in this world. You know? Uh, it's just the, one of the most important things that I talk about and people are like, oh, I'm not like a flag flying lesbian. I'm like, I am. Oh, I am, come to my house. There's flags in my house. There's, you know, I have all of these very, um, inappropriate shirts sometimes even that I'll wear to just like really put it in people's face, you know? Don't confuse me for something that I'm not right, because it's. Such an important milestone that we get to walk on the streets and generally we can be safe. Right? Generally,

Jen 45:09

yeah. That we stand on the shoulders of those who fought for us. Mm-hmm. Right. That's, I don't have to be waving my flag. Uh, we all express it differently. Right. And however you express it. Like we need to stand with each other mm-hmm. And stand for each other.

Quincy 45:27

Mm-hmm. Totally. Totally. I, um, remember when I was telling a friend of mine who she'd known me for, you know, since I was probably like 18 or something like that, when I finally left my husband and told everyone I was gay, even though I never had to come out to myself because I knew that was my story. So when people ask me about my coming out story, I really have to think about it because I didn't ever have to come out to myself. I already was out. I just did what people thought I needed to do. And she said to me, how do you even know gay? I thought, and to this day, still think that is one of the strangest questions I've ever been asked. Because instead of saying, and that was her first question, how, like, how did you arrive here? How did you, you know, like, I'm so proud of you, or Wow, we can't be friends anymore. Whatever the conversation ended up being. How is it that someone would say, how do you know gay people?

Jen 46:25

And I flipped the question. It was like, how do we know straight people? I mean, just because there's supposedly more heterosexuals out there.

Quincy 46:34

Yeah.

Jen 46:34

Like, how do we know that there's not more fluidity?

Quincy 46:38

Yeah.

Jen 46:38

I challenge that. Um, yeah, I mean, it, there, there's a funny story of, uh, kids in a. Queer parent family that they have to come out as straight.

Quincy 46:50

Yes. Right. Oh, my 12-year-old says that all the time, mommy, I'm so sorry. Right now I don't like girls. And I'm like, it's okay. Yeah. I'm okay with it. I said, is it my goal and my life's dream that you have a girlfriend and a, you know, a long-term partner at some point that's, you know, at least gender fluid with you and you guys can do whatever. It doesn't matter to me, you know? But yeah, love is

Jen 47:13

love.

Quincy 47:13

Yes, exactly. Pick your love. Exactly. I said, as long as whoever you bring home doesn't have really stinky feet, I think I'll be okay.

Jen 47:21

No stinky feet. I can agree with that.

Quincy 47:23

Right.

Jen 47:25

Have some manners. Yeah.

Quincy 47:27

Um, so what are you most proud of? Not in terms of achievement, but in terms of personal evolution.

Jen 47:34

Wow. Uh, that's a great question.

Quincy 47:38

Thank you.

Jen 47:40

Personal evolution is learning to be proud of yourself. That self love. I don't have as many great core memories like you do of your loving grandma. My grandma's was a little kooky. Um, and I will come out and say I'm a survivor of domestic violence from my childhood. So, given that, I'm so sorry, I didn't, sorry. Oh, thank you. Um, given that I didn't have an easy childhood, that I, my parents weren't proud of me and I was a high achiever because I had such low self-esteem, I still work through that a lot. And so I would say my proudest achievement is learning to meditate and being able to teach meditation. And sometimes I help ground people and give them a two or three minute meditation when they come to my poetry writing classes.

Quincy 48:36

Mm.

Jen 48:37

Because sometimes we just have to shake off our day. We shake off our past selves, like a dog can shake off their. Fur and be present that if we can learn yoga through dogs and not damage children and see how they are present. Cats, we are lesbians, so we have to acknowledge lesbians, but cats, you know, if we look at animals, how present they are being present is an accomplishment every day. Mm-hmm. That we can't take that for granted because we have so much in the world to distract us. So to be present, breathe to meditate. Um, those are really good daily accomplishments.

Quincy 49:25

Right. How do you teach people to meditate?'cause I know people go to like meditation retreats and all these things, and me being who I am and my brain is always all over the place and I'm, you know, thinking of next week and tomorrow and the next minute I feel my body's in one place and I'm very present in how my body feels in that place, but my brain doesn't feel like it's there. Is that possible?

Jen 49:51

Yeah. So I have failed many times. Okay. To learn how to meditate. And then some days it's hard and other days it's easier. Um, do you want to try doing a quick little meditation?

Quincy 50:04

Yeah.

Jen 50:04

Do we have two minutes to do that? Oh yeah, for sure. Okay. For sure. You know how we had the two minute power pose? Mm-hmm. Same thing with meditation.

Quincy 50:10

Okay.

Jen 50:10

So put, we're put our feet on the ground. Okay. So, or your feet are like roots of a tree and your brain is gonna be busy and we just let it be busy. Okay. Don't judge it. Like part of it is non-judgmentalness. Right. Okay. So all you have to do is focus on your breath, okay? And we're gonna feel your feet, feel your hips. Have legs that connect to those feet. So from your hips on down, it's like roots of a tree. Your spine is like a trunk, a tree trunk. And your energy are like the sparks of those leaves and tree branches. So if you just visualize the color red drying up from your feet, all the way up to your head and above your head, and then wash down that red paint all the way down your spine, all the way through your hips, all the way back down to your feet. And we're gonna paint the rainbow colors, uh, twice. Paint from the bottom of your feet, red. Paint it all the way up your spine, through your hips, all the way through your neck and up through your hair. And exhale, draw down, rinse that red down your spine. Remember, you're a three-dimensional person. You've got armpits and. Back sides and front sides. Paint the orange. Pull up some orange from the floor from the ground in your inhale, and then exhale, rinse your body with that orange. Inhaling some of that orange. You can pick a different shade of orange. It doesn't have to be the same orange. And then you rinse. Exhale, let go of some of that orange paint. Rinsing your body back. If you have aches and pains. Acknowledge them they exist. Thank you. I see you. Inhale some yellow. Yellow is a good power color for your solar plexus. Ann. Exhale, some yellow pulling up whatever yellow shade you have all through your body parts. Scanning your body hand and rinsing it out from your hair down through your back. And if you're bald, it's okay. You can rinse it down your skin. You can laugh at all. The follies that we have, inhaling some green. This green could be emerald, it could be lime, whatever green you pick. But pick one and then exhale from the top of your hair and rinse it down. Inhaling some green. Ah, and let it go with that. Exhale, that's your heart energy. Bringing up some blue. That's your throat chakra. And letting go of that blue, wash it down, pulling up some blue. One more time, helping you find your voice. That throat chakra opening. Ah, and some purple. That's for your third eye. Drawing up some purple from your feet through your knees. Hips up through your back to your third eye up through your hair and rinse it out from the top of your head downwards. Pulling up some purple. Make sure you get your left and right side, your front and back. Your armpits, your sides. Rinse it down. Pull up some golden sparkle, disco, glitter energy. Mm-hmm. That's your crown above your hair, above your head. And rinse down that sprinkle of glitter or gold, whatever that is. Pulling up some gold. Again, that's some angelic energy. Help you tap into your loving grandparents or your loving Maya Angelou poetry. And rinse it down. And this last color is your choice. Pick a color, any choice. It could be pink, it could be a repeat of whatever color you had before. Could be white. And rinse it down. Pull up this color that you chose opposite the top of your head. Rinse it above and below you. When you open your eyes, blink, blink, blink, blink, blink, and you're back in this room, how are you? Do you feel more present in your body?

Quincy 54:17

I totally do. I feel like Mel Robbins right now,'cause I'm gonna ask something really silly, which sometimes she does, right? When she's on a, this path, right? Where you're feeling really enlightened and all of a sudden she goes, don't. Don't. What does it feel like when I couldn't feel orange? What is that?

Jen 54:34

Ooh, good question. So gay and queer uhhuh, I just gave you the rainbow meditation with a body scan, uhhuh. So the body scan and the belly breath that allows you to help see where you don't feel right. Like so some of us feel only the left side and not the right. You're mentioning the orange, orange is creativity.

Quincy 54:57

Mm.

Jen 54:58

So when you had the bonus color that you could pick, you could pick what you didn't feel like orange and try repeating the orange until you start feeling it.

Quincy 55:06

Mm-hmm.

Jen 55:07

And also give yourself a break. Maybe you need to do it backwards. Mm-hmm. You know, start from purple on down to red. Red is your root chakra. Orange is your sacral creativity chakra. Get a little more sexy with your belly dancing and your boogie hip hop hip movement. Mm-hmm. And that might shake up that orange energy. Okay. Um, some of us who have lower self-esteem, we need to find our power. That yellow is something I struggle with.

Quincy 55:37

Mm.

Jen 55:37

So that's right below your ribs, above your belly button that I need to keep finding. Hey, if that yellow that I picked didn't quite work, can I pick a different yellow? And like, how do I feel that? Or you can literally rub your hands and have that. In the area that you don't feel Mm. And send love through your hands. So I can send love to my below the belly button in that pelvis area. I call that the underwear abs. Mm. Um, it's below the belly button. I can send orange energy through my hands to that area. That's a little easier to feel. Okay.'cause sometimes visualization doesn't work.

Quincy 56:13

Yeah.

Jen 56:13

But the tactile is another way for your brain to talk to your knee or talk to my shoulders and tell my shoulder to relax.

Quincy 56:21

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It was so weird because I didn't notice it till we went to yellow. And yellow was like,

Jen 56:26

easy,

Quincy 56:27

so easy and red. I felt like, um, a Frida Callow painting when I was doing red. Right. I was like, imagining how she has those, um,

Jen 56:37

ribbons,

Quincy 56:38

veins, things like coming out of her,

Jen 56:40

the snakes.

Quincy 56:41

But yes, exactly

56:43

good.

Quincy 56:43

But the orange was like coming up to my hips and then stopping, and then I could feel it like, poof out the top of my head. So when you were saying that I'm kind of in this place of like a very micro um, exploration of some new things, and so maybe that's like stunting my creativity now.'cause I'm, I feel like I'm being so analytical about it, like very planned and, um, calculated right now in, in venturing into this new place.

Jen 57:10

It's interesting that you felt it in your pelvis. Yeah. So you have it, but the fact that it's skipped means maybe you need to integrate.

Quincy 57:18

Mm.

Jen 57:18

So it's not that you lack that creativity, it's maybe that you need to integrate it to your head.

Quincy 57:24

Mm.

Jen 57:24

Right. So letting it integrate through your entire. Spine and your whole body.

Quincy 57:29

Oh wow. That's so pretty. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that with us.

Jen 57:32

Yeah.

Quincy 57:32

I'm actually a little lightheaded because I don't do much deep breathing like that. I'm like, did we just do like a hit or something?'cause I'm all like, relax. Yes. I'm like a little dizzy.

Jen 57:44

Yes. So when you deep breathe, you do get a little lightheaded and that's great. Yeah. I say your breath is a free drug.

Quincy 57:55

Oh my God. Right? It is. So much. So in so many different ways. So I'm gonna end on this and then I want to ask you just like in general something, but if you could leave listeners with one truth about courage, creativity, or belonging, what would you want them to carry with them after our talk today?

Jen 58:11

Wow. Courage, creativity, and belonging. All three So important. So I will answer all of it. Have the courage to be more of who you are. Your creativity helps give you that joy, give you that feeling of knowing yourself and expressing yourself. And by you expressing yourself, I hope you are welcoming others to be in community to express themselves. And belonging is part of that, that it's hard for us to feel like we belong unless we feel welcome. And so ultimately, getting down to basics. Be more of the joy that we can be, be more of the love that we can be, so that we can all feel like we can belong.

Quincy 59:09

Beautiful. I love that. I love that. Right before you chose, um, the poem that you read at the beginning, you said there was also a poem for when you end. Do you wanna read that

Jen 59:20

for us right quick? Oh yeah. Um, this is. A poem after Maya Angelou Still, I Rise and I wrote this to help you all feel like you might belong. So I love that Last question just segued perfectly into this poem that you didn't even know what it's about. Uh, so I thank you all for listening and contemplating and meditating with us today. Yes.

Quincy 59:46

That was so much fun. I love

Jen 59:48

that. Yeah. When you meditate, it helps you be more creative. It helps you be more you. So, um, this poem still I stand is my thanks for you listening and for being in community still. I stand not like a tree. The way my mother told me, but like a dandelion more scrappy, wild and freeze. Surprising people in the harsh cold of impossibilities I incubate in disguise, underestimated as a little thing and spread the blanket of my tribe. We bloom in unfriendly places season after season. Still I speak undeniably with dandelion fields of gold. Thank you all for being dandelions and being free and wild and joyful. I hope you had fun with us on this podcast conversation.

Quincy 1:00:49

Yes, absolutely. And where can everyone find you? Where can they come and listen to you?

Jen 1:00:54

Ooh, so I'm on social media, Instagram at Gen C, voice, JEN, the letter C voice. All one word, or you can find my website, gen c voice.com. And if you really don't know what to do with social media or websites, you can always email me Gen C voice@gmail.com. And I hope to hear from you. You can find me teaching classes at West Hollywood Library. You can check out my events, like I'm moderating an event with the Maser again on, uh, I'm moderating an event with the Maser on March 29th at 2:00 PM so please come talk to me after an event. I, um, might not see you in the audience because there's a lot of stimulation from the stage lights or the sound, but I am always happy for that one-on-one conversation because as an introvert, I really like getting to know people's stories one-on-one.

Quincy 1:01:53

Oh, that's so beautiful. And do you have any, um, like virtual classes or other ways that people can listen to you?

Jen 1:02:00

Yeah, um. You can find me on my YouTube channel at Gen C Voice, and I am teaching a virtual class for poetry writing at UCLA extension on April 11th. And so if you click on any of my links that say upcoming events or type it in link tree, L-I-N-K-T-R ee slash gen voice, you'll see my entire menu of what virtual or in-person classes are coming up. So April is National Poetry Month. Come visit West Hollywood. We have banners up on the street, lamps on the lampposts. Um, I'm celebrating two queer people of color. I'm not allowed to announce it until we announce it, um, who are newly, uh, printed on our banners. Ooh. Um, and I admire their poetry and what they do as community activists. And yeah, I am around in April a lot for national Poetry Month. Come celebrate. You do not have to be a poetry student. You do not have to be a writing student. You just have to be curious. So my classes are for all levels, beginners, curious to advanced people, and I teach, um, a concept called feng shui poetry that takes the five elements of feng shui, which is Chinese East Asian philosophy, but ultimately all of our pagan and um, cultural upbringings. We all know about the five elements, whether you like dragons from Alaska or dragons from Ireland. You know, we all celebrate certain mythologies that have a vibe. Um, and so those are, uh, some lens that you can write from your five elements.

Quincy 1:03:51

Oh, that's so awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I can't wait to come and hang out with you and see you and introduce my daughter to so many of the great things that you mentioned. Yeah. For her and lots of other girls and kids and people that are so interested in expressing themselves in ways other than music and things like that too. Yeah. So I appreciate you. Thank you so much.

Jen 1:04:14

Thank you for this conversation. You're welcome. I hope everyone stays creative. You're so welcome.